Meditation

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
Jake

Re: on forced meditation....

Postby Jake » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:55 pm

adrasteia (can't sign in) wrote:Children at St. James have meditation sessions twice a day.
Many of them do not meditate -see 'Has St. James really changed' thread for a brilliant example!
What then is the point in them sitting there every day for increasingly legthened periods if most are practicing anything but meditation?
This begins at age 10-11.
What they do decide to practice -as I agree, no one can be forced to meditate or pray- must then have a big effect on them, as it happens for a long period of their life- 8-9 years.
So is it merely harmful to them to force them to sit there?


No. Sitting quietly never harmed anyone. Pity more people can't manage it - pace of life and all that. Anyway it's only between 5 and 10 minutes. (So no increasingly lengthened periods.) And most - probably all - do meditate sometimes. Some people actually love it.[/u]

Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Postby Tom Grubb » Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:58 pm

Has anybody here managed to levitate through meditation?

Guest

Re: meditation...

Postby Guest » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:05 pm

adrasteia (can't sign in) wrote:Just to say about the warming of the fingers....
I think it is a little naive to think this is due to meditation. (sorry, no offense meant- couldn't think of a better word!)
If you are meditating inside a building rather than outside in the cold (which I assume was the case!) then the body will naturally attempt to restore a balance in the temperature of the body using the warmth of the room and the heat generated by the body ie. warming up the fingers if they are cold from having been outside! You may have had your hands in your pockets or covered which may have helped! Hope this helps!!
I think one benefit in meditation is that you have more control over your mind....ie. you can possibly focus or concentrate better.
This is my 'take' on meditation, although I do not practice regularly.


Ive been sitting in this warm room for the past 5 hours and my fingers are cold. Call it slow blood circulation.. or perhaps another relevant medical term. I'll get back to you after i've meditated!

cheerio!

Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Re: meditation...

Postby Tom Grubb » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:15 am

Anonymous wrote:
adrasteia (can't sign in) wrote:Just to say about the warming of the fingers....
I think it is a little naive to think this is due to meditation. (sorry, no offense meant- couldn't think of a better word!)
If you are meditating inside a building rather than outside in the cold (which I assume was the case!) then the body will naturally attempt to restore a balance in the temperature of the body using the warmth of the room and the heat generated by the body ie. warming up the fingers if they are cold from having been outside! You may have had your hands in your pockets or covered which may have helped! Hope this helps!!
I think one benefit in meditation is that you have more control over your mind....ie. you can possibly focus or concentrate better.
This is my 'take' on meditation, although I do not practice regularly.


Ive been sitting in this warm room for the past 5 hours and my fingers are cold. Call it slow blood circulation.. or perhaps another relevant medical term. I'll get back to you after i've meditated!

cheerio!

Let us know if you start flying and if your local crime rate drops dramatically, too. Oh, and don't forget to take credit if world peace breaks out!

Guest

Re: meditation...

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:36 pm

Tom Grubb wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
adrasteia (can't sign in) wrote:Just to say about the warming of the fingers....
I think it is a little naive to think this is due to meditation. (sorry, no offense meant- couldn't think of a better word!)
If you are meditating inside a building rather than outside in the cold (which I assume was the case!) then the body will naturally attempt to restore a balance in the temperature of the body using the warmth of the room and the heat generated by the body ie. warming up the fingers if they are cold from having been outside! You may have had your hands in your pockets or covered which may have helped! Hope this helps!!
I think one benefit in meditation is that you have more control over your mind....ie. you can possibly focus or concentrate better.
This is my 'take' on meditation, although I do not practice regularly.


Ive been sitting in this warm room for the past 5 hours and my fingers are cold. Call it slow blood circulation.. or perhaps another relevant medical term. I'll get back to you after i've meditated!

cheerio!

Let us know if you start flying and if your local crime rate drops dramatically, too. Oh, and don't forget to take credit if world peace breaks out!


Thanyou for the enthusiasic yet pointless scarcasm.

No, i didn't fly. I dont have a crime rate and OH.... world peace didn't break up!

Yet, meditation does help me in my own little way. Is that really so hard for you to understand?

Alban
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:23 am
Location: London

Re: meditation...

Postby Alban » Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:40 am

Anonymous wrote:No, i didn't fly. I dont have a crime rate and OH.... world peace didn't break up!

Yet, meditation does help me in my own little way. Is that really so hard for you to understand?



Hmmmm, you don't sound very serene...better get back and do some more!

:angel:

Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Re: meditation...

Postby Tom Grubb » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:14 pm

Anonymous wrote:
Tom Grubb wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
adrasteia (can't sign in) wrote:Just to say about the warming of the fingers....
I think it is a little naive to think this is due to meditation. (sorry, no offense meant- couldn't think of a better word!)
If you are meditating inside a building rather than outside in the cold (which I assume was the case!) then the body will naturally attempt to restore a balance in the temperature of the body using the warmth of the room and the heat generated by the body ie. warming up the fingers if they are cold from having been outside! You may have had your hands in your pockets or covered which may have helped! Hope this helps!!
I think one benefit in meditation is that you have more control over your mind....ie. you can possibly focus or concentrate better.
This is my 'take' on meditation, although I do not practice regularly.


Ive been sitting in this warm room for the past 5 hours and my fingers are cold. Call it slow blood circulation.. or perhaps another relevant medical term. I'll get back to you after i've meditated!

cheerio!

Let us know if you start flying and if your local crime rate drops dramatically, too. Oh, and don't forget to take credit if world peace breaks out!


Thanyou for the enthusiasic yet pointless scarcasm.

No, i didn't fly. I dont have a crime rate and OH.... world peace didn't break up!

Yet, meditation does help me in my own little way. Is that really so hard for you to understand?

Keep your hair on! I was merely quoting some of the extraordinary claims of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (one of Maclaren's gurus) and his TM cult regarding meditation.

User avatar
a different guest
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
Location: Australia

Postby a different guest » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:27 am

when I was a kid we had a game called "levitation". It took 6 kids, one of which was the "subject". The subject would lie on their back, the other five would sit around them - one at the head, one on either side near their waist, and the last two either side of the legs. The kid at the subjects head would massage the subjects temples and say "S/he looks light" - the others would repeat this. Then the leader would say "S/he IS light", going on thru things like "S/he looks as light as a feather" etc. etc. At the end all five would then put their fingers under the subject and seem to lift them very easily. However the subject only ever got lifted about six inches above the ground and the ratio of lifters WAS 5 to 1. :)

Guest

Re: on forced meditation....

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:57 am

Jake wrote:
adrasteia (can't sign in) wrote:Children at St. James have meditation sessions twice a day.
Many of them do not meditate -see 'Has St. James really changed' thread for a brilliant example!
What then is the point in them sitting there every day for increasingly legthened periods if most are practicing anything but meditation?
This begins at age 10-11.
What they do decide to practice -as I agree, no one can be forced to meditate or pray- must then have a big effect on them, as it happens for a long period of their life- 8-9 years.
So is it merely harmful to them to force them to sit there?


No. Sitting quietly never harmed anyone. Pity more people can't manage it - pace of life and all that. Anyway it's only between 5 and 10 minutes. (So no increasingly lengthened periods.) And most - probably all - do meditate sometimes. Some people actually love it.[/u]


I would agree that sitting quietly never harmed anyone, especially if the mind is still. But I would argue that many of the children at St. James do not sit still and do not have their thoughts stilled at thes moments, whatever the 'Spectrum' would have believe, (School newsletter), or indeed the prospectus. I know there have also been newspaper articles on the meditation at the school with pictures of serene peacefulchildren on the front- they are sitting there with there eyes closed trying desperately to be still so they will get their picture taken! Really! It's not a true representation of what goes on in meditation sessions at St. James. I know there are some who find it helpful, I am very glad for them, but the others sit there and figit and gaze round the room.
The periods are supposed to increase as the pupil gets older, but most teachers are glad to cut it short as so many pupils abviously don't want to be there. But they do still get a little longer.
Most do not meditate, most have hardly ever meditated.

adrasteia(can't sign in)

Re: meditation...

Postby adrasteia(can't sign in) » Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:04 am

Sorry that was me writing the message above!
Anonymous wrote:
Tom Grubb wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
adrasteia (can't sign in) wrote:Just to say about the warming of the fingers....
I think it is a little naive to think this is due to meditation. (sorry, no offense meant- couldn't think of a better word!)
If you are meditating inside a building rather than outside in the cold (which I assume was the case!) then the body will naturally attempt to restore a balance in the temperature of the body using the warmth of the room and the heat generated by the body ie. warming up the fingers if they are cold from having been outside! You may have had your hands in your pockets or covered which may have helped! Hope this helps!!
I think one benefit in meditation is that you have more control over your mind....ie. you can possibly focus or concentrate better.
This is my 'take' on meditation, although I do not practice regularly.


Ive been sitting in this warm room for the past 5 hours and my fingers are cold. Call it slow blood circulation.. or perhaps another relevant medical term. I'll get back to you after i've meditated!

cheerio!

Let us know if you start flying and if your local crime rate drops dramatically, too. Oh, and don't forget to take credit if world peace breaks out!


Thanyou for the enthusiasic yet pointless scarcasm.

No, i didn't fly. I dont have a crime rate and OH.... world peace didn't break up!

Yet, meditation does help me in my own little way. Is that really so hard for you to understand?


I'm glad it helps you, long may it do so. :)

Just curious

Postby Just curious » Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:13 pm

When you join, you are offered mediattion and it is a "You don't have to if you don't want to" attitude. Some of course are curious and do try it, but once you join you can't stop praticing it at school it no matter how hard you try to persuade them now its a "You've been given a gift, we won't let you waste it". The mediatation itself is beneficial in whatever form, but it is non-negotionable how you do it at St. James, sitting on the floor, head down etc. is not even heard by them. There is only one way to meditate: There are many paths to god: We worship the same god really: You meditate to be stiller and be one with the self. They believe all of these but they all contradict each other. If mediatation gets the same results any way you do it, why does it matter?

Antises

Art of Living

Postby Antises » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:50 pm

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TB

Postby TB » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:38 pm

In response to the posts discussing the tingling of the fingers that occurs during meditation. I understand that this is due to improved circulation and greater stillness to percieve things. The same feeling sometimes also occurs with tai chi practice. The relaxation of muscles and different energy pathways (meridians as in acupuncture) allows a freer flow of blood and supposedly energy.

The breathing system from the Art of living foundation mentioned by Antises in the last post seems to work along similar lines (I am NOT familar with the system as a practitioner, just using deduction).

This approach is my choice as systems for peace of mind, health and a different type of fitness to aerobics classes, weight training or running.

mgormez
Posts: 501
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Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Meditation alters brain patterns

Postby mgormez » Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:39 am

I find the group of 20 people very small btw..

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology ... idate.html

Teaser:

Meditate on This: Buddhist Tradition Thickens Parts of the Brain
By LiveScience Staff

posted: 11 November 2005
09:54 am ET


Meditation alters brain patterns in ways that are likely permanent, scientists have known. But a new study shows key parts of the brain actually get thicker through the practice.

Brain imaging of regular working folks who meditate regularly revealed increased thickness in cortical regions related to sensory, auditory and visual perception, as well as internal perception -- the automatic monitoring of heart rate or breathing, for example.

...

The research was led by Sara Lazar, assistant in psychology at Massachusetts General Hospital. It is detailed in the November issue of the journal NeuroReport.exercises involved.
Mike Gormez

Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Postby Tom Grubb » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:43 pm

TB wrote:In response to the posts discussing the tingling of the fingers that occurs during meditation. I understand that this is due to improved circulation and greater stillness to percieve things. The same feeling sometimes also occurs with tai chi practice. The relaxation of muscles and different energy pathways (meridians as in acupuncture) allows a freer flow of blood and supposedly energy.

The breathing system from the Art of living foundation mentioned by Antises in the last post seems to work along similar lines (I am NOT familar with the system as a practitioner, just using deduction).

This approach is my choice as systems for peace of mind, health and a different type of fitness to aerobics classes, weight training or running.


TB,

I'm not an expert but I would have thought that tingling in the fingers was more likely to be connected with *reduced* blood flow than increased blood flow. In the case of meditation, though, I think it's probably got more to do with simple suggestion: one expects to feel a tingling, so one does. As for the "different energy pathways (meridians as in acupuncture)" explanation, that's scientifically meaningless. Despite the claims of acupuncturists, medical science has never been able to isolate these 'meridians' or the 'chi' that supposedly flows through them.


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