Musak

[adrasteia (can't sign in)]

To balance Misty's veiw of the Music at St. James:

For a long time the Music Competition has been very limited as to choice of song in terms of Genre, although there have been many beautiful songs sung I will say.
There is now a light music class, where Cristina Aguillera's single "I am beautiful..." was indeed sung, ONCE, but I'm afraid never to be sung again! ...It not taken well!
Jazz on the other hand is gaining more acceptance ie. Cole Porter & Gershwin. Also Eva Cassidy's over the Rainbow! But still Classical music reigns supreeme!
Subject matter is under close consideration however, part of the reason for the banning of some of the songs performed.
In one concert a group of Boys performed a Coldplay song, this too was considered 'bad', never to be done again!
The choir are limited to what they can perform.
But yes, I think it's better. I don't think Classical music is quite so slifleing, although attitudes to music are often mis-informed and very narrow-minded still, which can stimulate attitudes towards certain types of music in children, ie. classical.

[Antises]

I must mention that, in the Boys school at least, the standard of non-classical music was generally much lower than that of classical music, and you don't need to be an expert in music to realise this. There were some good guitar accompaniments though. There were also two drummers who, one after the other, made a loud and incessant noise, and this "drum & bass" hurt everyone's ears, including mine - I was sitting at the back of the hall. I am sure I could see the fury in Mr. Debenham's face. Surely music isn't meant to physically hurt you? If it does, then it should not be allowed in such a competition. I feel that people should by all means be allowed and encouraged to perform non-classical pieces of music, but firstly they have to be good enough and secondly they have to be kinder on the ears than those drummers. Who knows, perhaps in a decade, rap music will be allowed - "rap music": what an oxymoron!

P.S. I'm glad to hear Eva Cassidy's "Over the Rainbow" was sung in the Girls school. She was a great talent and much missed, her short-lived career having produced some masterful recordings.

[Alban]

I must mention that, in the Boys school at least, the standard of non-classical music was generally much lower than that of classical music,

Hmmm.....I wonder why!

I am sure I could see the fury in Mr. Debenham's face.

Great - would love to have seen it....did his neck go bright red like it always used to?

I feel that people should by all means be allowed and encouraged to perform non-classical pieces of music, but firstly they have to be good enough and secondly they have to be kinder on the ears than those drummers.

Catch 22 - how are you supposed to get better if you're not given the opportunity to practice and perform. School concerts should always be about looking for the positive in the children's efforts, and guiding them when they've got it wrong - not stoppig them play.

Music is very close to my heart (hence the thread) and there is good and bad in everything (including rap and even thrash metal). This can be identified if you spend enough effort really listening to the piece, and not just dismissing it out of hand. Sometimes you have to learn how to listen to music, but do it yourself. Personally, I have no interest in consuming what a music critic has to say, or indeed non-qualified commentators such as those that decide the SES' musical policy. I would rather listen to the piece myself and make up my own mind (but most times you need to listen more than once).

As for the schools, surely it is the job of any teacher to embrace not censor all cultures and tastes, and to improve the level of knowledge in the children in all areas.

[mgormez]

To aid the discussion, I just saw this:

Molecular basis for Mozart effect revealed
15:10 23 April 04
NewScientist.com news service

New research has revealed a molecular basis for the "Mozart effect" - the observation that a brief stint of Mozart, but not other music, may improve learning and memory.

...

The researchers found that these smarter rats had increased gene expression of BDNF, a neural growth factor, CREB, a learning and memory compound, and synapsin I, a synaptic growth protein, in their hippocampus, as compared to control rats who had listened to equivalent amounts of white noise.

"The findings are intriguing," says Howard Gardner, an IQ expert at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and sceptic of the Mozart effect. "It suggests stimulation in general has measurable neurochemical effects. But whether this effect is due to music, let alone Mozart, still has to be determined." Other experiments have shown that enriching a rat's environment with toys can spur growth of new neurons.

[rest deleted]

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994918

[adrasteia]

The Mozart effect:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/mozarteffect.shtml
This might be of interest. It's written from the veiwpoint of a Scientist/Musician and from what I remember is quite interesting.
But it's not quite as up to date as your report I don't think.

[adrasteia]

As for the schools, surely it is the job of any teacher to embrace not censor all cultures and tastes, and to improve the level of knowledge in the children in all areas.

"we will opt to give our girls experience of the finest literature, language, art, music, dance and drama."

So they only include what they believe is fine. I think there's also something else about music being 'food for the emotions or soul', so music becomes part of the philosophical education of St. James. They believe they are doing the best thing.
It should come as no surprise therefore that music at St. James is judged by its spiritual quality of the performance, music and everything, not as music, and this not by musicians but by members of the Ses who just happen to be the headeachers of St. James, so I wonder where their notions of a pure performance come from!
So yes, it's all very narrow minded, and I think in a way it's distructive: certainly the end of Summer Term concerts are very impressive, and I know that the pupils do enjoy them when it comes down to it! But the musical children, those composing and in orchestras or choirs who would like to take music more seriously DO suffer.
I think this is especially true of the music in performance.
There is very little understanding of how long music needs to be rehearsed for it to be up to performance standard, ie. expectations that children can just get up and perform at the drop of a hat, or that choir pieces will just materialize with no rehearsal time.
When in public performance there can be a tendancy to judge perfomances and student compositions by their spiritual qualities or purity. This usually occurs in the choice of what should be performed, be it at speech day or assembly.
The choir gets it quite bad as they are always called on to sing at open days etc. So rather than learning new music they are continually have to bring back simple pieces which have been aproved for open day performance. As a result they never learn much new music which is challenging and would help to open horizons etc. They have attempted some close harmony, which seems to have gone well so far, but a more challenging piece was deemed unsuitable.
Of course, when it comes to teaching A level and GCSE other aspects have to be included, and so in that way the teacher is introducing those pupils to all kinds of music.
But to others it is just beomes like the meditation of St. James, a tedious oddity. It's a shame, because if there was more of a balance then I feel more children wouldn't automatically hate Mozart, when I know they don't know the half about him!
But music is quite a prominant feature of St. James, and of the spiritual education it provides, so can 'get it' quite hard.
I think the aim is a good one- to give children the finest music, but I do not agree with their criteria.

[Tom Grubb]

Can anybody explain in simple terms why the SES considers Mozart to be the ne plus ultra of composers whereas Beethoven is ignored? Is it just because of MacLaren's personal tastes or is there more to it?

[adrasteia]

Well it seems that other composers do get some look in!

http://www.schooleconomicscience.org/ne ... ncerts.htm

....although there seems to be a very subtle bias?!?!?

[a different guest]

I dunno adrasteia - to give the evening a tag line I would be tempted to call it "Mostly Mozart" anyways.

[Alban]

So, despite protestations to the contrary by some pro-SES / St James members on this board, the music policy hasn't changed one Iota then!

Good to know they're moving with the times.

[a different guest]

and I'm still wondering how on earth they found a Coldplay song inappropriate!

[adrasteia]

So, despite protestations to the contrary by some pro-SES / St James members on this board, the music policy hasn't changed one Iota then!
Good to know they're moving with the times.

Well, they are playing more than just Mozart! But I don't have older programs to compare it with.
The music at the school is becoming more all-embracing. It has to be when you teach it as an academic subject anyway.
But yes, cold-play was innapropriate! Probably because it wasn't fine?

[TB]

Hallo Tom Grubb,
in answer to your question about Mozart being regarded as 'fine' relative to Beethoven's 'coarseness'. This is based upon the premise that art is meant to reflect society and the more accurately it does this, the finer it is. The same applies to fine art, literature.
Mozart was felt to have a special gift for music in the sense that it came from within, in SES terms, from the absolute. A composer like Beethoven, on the other hand, sweated through scales and intellect, and wrote according to the principles of music at the time.
Listening to Mozart 'correctly' is supposed to connect one with the absolute better than Beethoven, where additional baggage was inadvertantly written in. By extension, music that is written with 'evil' intentions, will deliberately distort pure truth, and listening to it will obscure our connection with the absolute.
If listening to Mozart does not elevate you to this level, then you need to do some work on the fineness of your listening. If you think that some of the modern works are good listening, ditto.

The above is my understanding of the SES teaching around this question, and I am open to my memory and interpretation. It is not my personal opinion or experience of music. I enjoy some works of Mozart, Beethoven and other classical composers and some bore me silly. I also enjoy plenty of the modern stuff, but once again some of it hurts my ears. I find classical music needs more time and attention to appreciate, perhaps there is a message there?

[Abel Holzing]

So, despite protestations to the contrary by some pro-SES / St James members on this board, the music policy hasn't changed one Iota then!

The SES's current understanding of - and attitude towards - the arts can perhaps be best judged at their forthcoming 'Art in Essence - a festival of visual and performing arts' event, at its Mandeville Place headoffice (13-18 July 2004). I found a lot of detail on its www.artinessence.co.uk website - under the heading 'Music' you find the following:

- CONCERT I/II, String Quartets: Haydn and Beethoven
- CONCERT III/IV, The Spirit of Folk: songs by Britten, Copland, Mahler and Brahms
- CONCERT V, Portrait of Mozart through his Piano and Violin Sonatas
- CONCERT VI/IX, Two Clarinets: Mendlessohn, Poulenc, Mozart and Krommer
- CONCERT VII/VIII, Solo Piano Recital / Baroque on Piano: Bach, Scarlatti, Mozart
- CONCERT XII, The Spirit of Singing through the centuries: Hildegard v Bingen, Perotin, Dunstable, G Gabrieli, Purcell, Britten, Bach, Handel
- CONCERT XIII & XIV, A Journey through Indian Music: perf: Gheerawo (vocal), Thevasagayam (percussion), Sahathevan (violin)
- CONCERT XV and XVI, Music for Flute, Viola and Harp: Debussey, Bax and Takamitsu

As stated in this thread, there is clearly a heavy bias towards classical music (both old and modern composers); but I don't think you can say there is an undue emphasis on Mozart at the expense of other classical composers relative to, say, the classical listings of London's Time Out or similar magazines.

[adrasteia]

I would say that the Ses concert series listed on their Web site -and I would assume aimed mostly at members- gives a far clearer representation of their attitudes, and there is a very strong Classical/Mozart Bias. (It is in one of my previous posts.)
The list you have provided is part of the 'potted' Art in Action festival, so some of the groups playing will, I should think (but couldn't find a list on the site) be visiting artists and musicians, and so will offer a wider range of music. The music offered is also for the public and not just Ses members, so a wider selection is required to attract outside interest. There is still a pretty tame range of music.