Any experiences with SES practices in Holland?

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
Piet van der Weijden
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Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Any experiences with SES practices in Holland?

Postby Piet van der Weijden » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:33 am

OHM... Chantee... Chantee... Chantee-hee

Well, now that I probably made a good impression on all of you readers, I finally can introduce myself. I am an 'unconscious' lad from Amsterdam, The Netherlands. And uhh.. I'm supposed to write on this forum about my SES past. This sounds simple, but it is not al all.

I'll be brief.
About thirty years ago, my mother joined the local SES branch, which in those days was called 'School voor Filosofie'; 'School for Philosophy'.
Nowadays however, the 'true' Dutch branch is called 'School for Practical Philosophie and Spirituality'

This alternation of name is due to a power struggle within the Dutch branch between the 'Mac Laren/Lambie orthodox members' and the 'liberals'; those school members who wanted the Dutch school to follow its own, independent spiritual way. The conflict ended in a trial. The final judgement by a Dutch judge permitted the 'liberals' to carry on with the original name 'School voor Filosofie', so the Mc. Laren/Lambie-compliant people had to figure out the name 'School for Practical Philosophy and Spirituality'. This all took place about five years ago.

Well, that's a difficult story to tell, especially when you are not a native speaker of English.
Frankly, I am no party at all in the struggle I described above. Although I do not like the orthodox SES-oriented people in my country at all , I also must say say that the 'liberals' (who succeeded in overwhelming the Board of the original Dutch SES-branch) do have blood ont their hands, caused by their Caesarian power play.

This power struggle took place in the year 2001, a long time after I left The School.

My parents support the 'original' SES-approch until this day, I mean: the branch which was forced to figure out a new name because of the 'Coup' by the non Mc.Laren/Lambie compliant 'liberals', who were acclaimed by the Dutch legal verdict.

It's been almost fifteen years ago now since I left the School. The original 'School voor Filosofie' I mean, which was lead/managed in those days by the late Mr. and Mrs. Van Oyen.

Well, this might be al long introduction to my question. Excuse me for my broken English. It might get better when I'll practice more.

My question is: Do you have experiences with the Dutch SES branch, especially with youth groups?

ITI

Piet (38 yrs, Amsterdam)
Former SES-member in Holland (1979-1990)

Coralie
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:25 pm

Postby Coralie » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:11 am

Hello Piet van der Weijden,

Your English is much better than my Dutch.

You have piqued my interest when you mentioned Mr and Mrs Van Oyen. I remember a Miss Van Oyen when I was at School. She was over here looking after Maclaren for years. To a child she didn't seem very young. What relationship was she to the Van Oyen's you were talking about?

Sorry, if that seems a very strange question.

Welcome to the site.
Thank you,
Coralie :fadein:

Snowman
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:31 am
Location: London

Postby Snowman » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:08 am

Coralie wrote:Hello Piet van der Weijden,

Your English is much better than my Dutch.

You have piqued my interest when you mentioned Mr and Mrs Van Oyen. I remember a Miss Van Oyen when I was at School. She was over here looking after Maclaren for years. To a child she didn't seem very young. What relationship was she to the Van Oyen's you were talking about?

Sorry, if that seems a very strange question.

Welcome to the site.
Thank you,
Coralie :fadein:


That was Doreen Van Oyen - the daughter of the Mr and Mrs VO who founded the Dutch school originally.

Hello Piet,

Your English is excellent and your experiences and summary of the situation in the Netherlands are very interesting. I remember the Dutch youth groups coming to stay at Waterperry during the Summer (late 1980s and early 1990s) especially during Art in Action - did you ever visit?

Snowman.

emmalu9
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:07 pm
Location: London

Postby emmalu9 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:30 pm

Hi Piet,

Thanks for writing. I take it you didn't go to the Plato School since you are 38? I had pen pals from that school for ages - the Meuwisse twins, Rosalinde and Deiudonee, who were lovely.

Unfortunately the reputation of the Dutch school was tarnished in the UK by the disgraceful behaviour of the daughter of its founders, who was notoriously promiscuous especially amongst senior members of the UK shool. She was and still is a cause of and contributor to immeasurable suffering and damage in a number of SES and ex-SES families.

What made you leave the SES in the end?

grimep
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:47 pm

Postby grimep » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:06 pm

emmalu9 wrote:She was and still is a cause of and contributor to immeasurable suffering and damage in a number of SES and ex-SES families.


excuse me being rude and butting in here, but it takes two to tango doesn't it??

Matthew
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:57 pm
Location: London

Postby Matthew » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:21 pm

Relevant to this thread is Paul van Oyen's website:-
http://www.pvanoyen.nl/beginning.php
He was once MacLaren's chaffeur. There are references to Waterperry, Stanhill Court, and the origins of the SES.

Snowman
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:31 am
Location: London

Postby Snowman » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:34 pm

grimep wrote:
emmalu9 wrote:She was and still is a cause of and contributor to immeasurable suffering and damage in a number of SES and ex-SES families.


excuse me being rude and butting in here, but it takes two to tango doesn't it??


You are not wrong her dancing partners are no less guilty than she is. As I have mentioned before, there was complicit approval of these affairs from the very heart and top of the SES. They happened and were allowed to happen for years and the ripples of consequence are still being felt by many people.

D van Oyen was Maclaren's personal chambermaid, favourite (don't really know what to call her) and she was deliberately manipulative and, I believe, a seducer under the watchful eye (and probably encouragement) of Maclaren. She was sent to the UK as a young teenager to study with Maclaren personally - I have read on the Internet somwhere her account of meeting and studying under him. How would a 13/14 year old girl develop under the guidance and influence of such a powerfully manipulative man. I think maybe the relationship developed into one of equal manipulative power as she grew up.

So yes, grimep, it does take two to tango but I think that the REAL issue here is the permissive culture of immoral behaviour within the SES shrouded in faux-piety and guarded by the very men and women who preach the TRUTH (SES Truth is NOT to be confused with Real TRUTH - it has created its own brand). Do as I Say; Not as I do - type of Truth.

emmalu9
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:07 pm
Location: London

Postby emmalu9 » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:59 pm

Grimep,

excuse me being rude and butting in here, but it takes two to tango doesn't it??


I didn't think you were being rude, of course you're absolutely right that it does take two to commit adultery, but you may notice that I said 'cause and contribute' in my last post. This was because DVO is a predatory and manipulative individual, known for targeting married men, and for her anstonishingly brazen attitudes. Her sister recalled her intention to stay in England until she had 'stolen' a particular husband.

Whilst I would in no way consider the responsibility of any men involved to be diminished because of DVO's malintent, I do acknowledge that since DVO was a favoured member of big mac's entourage, she would have had a great deal of influence over the lives that he controlled - ie those high up in the SES. Also, as many have attested on this site, belonging to the SES can make people more suggestible, and allow them to make decisions that they would not consider in other circumstances.

I hope this clarifies my earlier statement for you.

Clara
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:34 pm

Postby Clara » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:40 pm

I used to call her Doreen v. annoying when she rang up our house.
Clara

Piet van der Weijden
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:06 am
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Postby Piet van der Weijden » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:54 pm

Snowman wrote:
Coralie wrote:Hello Piet van der Weijden,

Your English is much better than my Dutch.

You have piqued my interest when you mentioned Mr and Mrs Van Oyen. I remember a Miss Van Oyen when I was at School. She was over here looking after Maclaren for years. To a child she didn't seem very young. What relationship was she to the Van Oyen's you were talking about?

Sorry, if that seems a very strange question.

Welcome to the site.
Thank you,
Coralie :fadein:


That was Doreen Van Oyen - the daughter of the Mr and Mrs VO who founded the Dutch school originally.

Hello Piet,

Your English is excellent and your experiences and summary of the situation in the Netherlands are very interesting. I remember the Dutch youth groups coming to stay at Waterperry during the Summer (late 1980s and early 1990s) especially during Art in Action - did you ever visit?

Snowman.
Former SES-member in Holland (1979-1990)

Piet van der Weijden
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:06 am
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Contact:

Miss Van Oyen

Postby Piet van der Weijden » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:15 pm

emmalu9 wrote:Hi Piet,

Thanks for writing. I take it you didn't go to the Plato School since you are 38? I had pen pals from that school for ages - the Meuwisse twins, Rosalinde and Deiudonee, who were lovely.

Unfortunately the reputation of the Dutch school was tarnished in the UK by the disgraceful behaviour of the daughter of its founders, who was notoriously promiscuous especially amongst senior members of the UK shool. She was and still is a cause of and contributor to immeasurable suffering and damage in a number of SES and ex-SES families.

What made you leave the SES in the end?


Hello Emmalu,

So the rumours that were going around concerning miss Van Oyen's behaviour were based upon the truth indeed (truth without a capital T :fadein: ). Let me, frankly, say that I hardly know her. When she returned to Holland after Sirs 'last incarnation had come to an end', I already had left the school. I only met her once or twice at birthday parties of my mother.

I left school in the early nineties. The philosophical climate at that time was quite authoritarian. I participated in a gents youth group, which was considered by the school's leaders as a kind of 'future elite'. Because of this, we were told suddenly that we had to attend a residential weekend every two weeks! None of us were consulted if we wanted this 'privilegeous treatment' at all; the measure was imposed without any discussion before.
After I left the youth group in anger, I joined a regular group of a lower level, but this was the beginning of the end of my SVF (SES) carreer.

Well, I'll write to this forum later again.

Kind regards,


Piet van der Weijden

PS: Fifteen years after leaving, I do not have any hard feelings about the SVF anymore. Five years ago my sister also left school. My father and my mother are still in (in the new 'orthodox' branch which was founded after the collapse/coup by the former SVF board). My father is more the type of a 'follower'; not so very motivated. My mother is among the most motivated Dutch school members, although she got less fanatic over the past years.
At this moment she attends a residential in the school's Oxerhof mansion near Deventer, lead by mr. Lambie himself. In Holland we call this prestigious residential 'De Engelse Week'.
Former SES-member in Holland (1979-1990)

Goblinboy
Moderator
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Postby Goblinboy » Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:46 am

Thanks Emmalu9 and Snowman for shedding more light on the questions raised about D. Van Oyen in the "Secret Cult Thread". http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... 2&start=30 [url]

Also adds a bit more context to the discussion on heretical behaviour of some senior SES people (preach fidelity but don't practice it) such as Michael Mavro, etc. [/url]

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erikdr
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:14 pm
Location: Amsterdam

SES in Holland

Postby erikdr » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:02 pm

Good stuff from Piet, and some more from Dorien!

Mostly on the point

"Your English is excellent and your experiences and summary of the situation in the Netherlands are very interesting. I remember the Dutch youth groups coming to stay at Waterperry during the Summer (late 1980s and early 1990s) especially during Art in Action - did you ever visit? "

Well, I was in Piet's group and continued where he left - so did the fortnighly weekends until the group was split about 18 months later, and attended Waterperry twice.

Still in contact with a few of other ex-SES friends, and their picture of SvF situation closely represents Piet's.

Good to hear on Dorien's reputation; her brother Paul still has a following in Holland (now with his new 'hobby', Enneagrams and some Veda again - good link to his website.)

Any additional reflections welcome!
With folded palms,

<Erik>

Piet van der Weijden
Posts: 13
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Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Television item about Dutch youth group residentials

Postby Piet van der Weijden » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:51 pm

So, Erik, we must know each other personally! How interesting. You were in the group of Mr. Goudsbloem too. He passed away a couple of years ago. Yesterday, when the former Dutch national football team coach Rinus Michels died, I had to think of Mr. Goudsbloem because both Michels and Goudsbloem were typical Amsterdam 'folk' blokes.

After all I think Goudsbloem was a good guy; his intentions were not evil at all, I guess. What I hated about the youth group was the interference by Mr. Paul van Oyen.

Do you remember this televison item about the youth group residentials at De Breul mansion on one of the national Dutch networks. I think it was broadcast shortly after I left the group. The programme was called Jonge Helden (Young Heroes) and te tone of voice was remarkably positive, I remember, especially when is taken into account that it was broadcast by the left-wing, liberal network VPRO.
Former SES-member in Holland (1979-1990)

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erikdr
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:14 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Dutch School

Postby erikdr » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:32 pm

After all I think Goudsbloem was a good guy; his intentions were not evil at all, I guess. What I hated about the youth group was the interference by Mr. Paul van Oyen.

Do you remember this televison item about the youth group residentials at De Breul mansion on one of the national Dutch networks. I think it was broadcast shortly after I left the group. The programme was called Jonge Helden (Young Heroes) and te tone of voice was remarkably positive, I remember, especially when is taken into account that it was broadcast by the left-wing, liberal network VPRO.


Hi Piet,

All fitting. Yes, was a positive TV documentary; I myself also had my 10 seconds of fame in it (cleaning a window with small manual tooling, what else does one do at a SES residential weekend) and survived the mike.

Van Oyen was and is a funny person, yes. I dived a bit deeper in his website now (mentioned a few posts earlier) and see the striking difference between his own story ('he had to leave SES to go back to non-institutionalist pure roots') and that one which I heard from others. That one being that he was kicked out from the School by the fellow members of the board for being too much of a dictator. Similar to what happened in his career - he briefly mentions the Bank Office which he helped founding in Amsterdam in the eighties, but does not mention that it became quite a failure partly due to clashes between his aristocratic style of managing and the other partners.

Anyhow, he too had his bad and good sides. I still admire his capacity to be silent and spread that silence by simply looking at you. And two of my friends in their most devoted SES period decided to become part of his short-lived pilot program in matchmaking, and got matched by him. Though both ex-SES members now they're still happily together and just planned a 3rd child...

So far. Yes, you definitely know me. We even met briefly at the Youth Groups reunion a few years back in a dancing in Amsterdam...
With folded palms,



<Erik>


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