Simply Amazed

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
galeeb
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 1:44 am

Simply Amazed

Postby galeeb » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:12 am

I joined the SES in about 1999. I was there (in London) for 2 years, I think.
I left just as we were about to be introduced to the SOM for our mantras.
I never saw the whole process up to then as unusual.
In fact, I wholeheartedly accepted it as being just the experience I needed.
I had begun questionning the existence of 'god' prior to my joining SES and had even begun meditaiting (self-initiated) so I always felt that I was a step ahead, you know.
I had to leave though as my professional life took over.
However, for a long time I viewed that period of my life as clear, contented and worthwhile.
In hindsight, I left at just the right time. My life got back on track and I believe I had benefitted emotionally, spiritually and mentally from my time at SES.
For some reason, just prior to my joining I was on a downward spiral heading for either physical danger or a custodial sentence (hope that doesn't sound too melodramatic).
Today, I am... well happy and doing just fine.
I still put aside a little time to 'reflect', 'meditate', appreciate 'good company' etc and for a long time felt I must repay SES some day, somehow.
I did a google search a couple of years ago and came across the Eve Std articles and this site and was shocked but eventually forgot about these and instead remembered the SES's - I'm struggling to find the right word here - intent... practice?
Going through my browser bookmarks, I've re-discovered this link and again I'm shocked, saddened and quite simply amazed.
I used to observe the adjoining school and think that it was a wonderful idea and a place I wished I'd belonged to.
It seems, though, that this was a sorry disillusion.
There was something meaningful, encapsulating and true in the SES's postition so why the contradictory accounts of StJ Schools?
A good intention will, I suppose, always eventually be sullied.

I understand the bitterness of bad experience and I understand the pain memory can inflict and my heart goes out to those who hurt.

I don't intend to find myself lost again nor dependent on any discipline that is not of my own careful self-preservating creation.

But, SES was good for me and I find it difficult to reconcile these posts/threads with my memory of SES.

At times, it seemed too simplistic at other times esoteric but at heart genuine. I realise that this forum is something of a cathartic exercise for site members but I am wondering, do those with bad experiences of particular individuals not have any redeeming comments for the School(s) as a whole?

User avatar
erikdr
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:14 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Positive feedback

Postby erikdr » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:25 pm

Hi galeeb,

Appreciate your attempt to put things into context, and prevent some parts of the forum to become a one-sided bashing wall.

On the suggestions

do those with bad experiences of particular individuals not have any redeeming comments for the School(s) as a whole?

There was something meaningful, encapsulating and true in the SES's postition


I'd definitely agree, as I've done in previous posts. While I was not in the daytime school I was in the youth groups (the 'marines') of the adult SES for quite some years and devoted a lot of myself to it.

I felt, and still feel, the school as a whole to be a 'reasonably good' cult - but a cult it is. A few positive points about cults, and hence the SES, are
* Good comradry and at times even real friendship, especially when groups stay together for a longer time.
* A 'pressure cooker' dimension which helps one overcome one's own limitations, both the egoistic ones AND at times also the ones which are spiritually sound and should better not be 'overcome'.
* Access to a lot of spiritual truth, often much more intense than a normal church/spiritual group.

The negative points of cults have been indicated enough by others in the forum; in summary it is about risks of abusing people, power creeping in and breaking the very same ethical rules which one teaches to the students.

So I'd even still recommend the SES like situations to certain types of people, with all warnings about the risks. Although in other religions / spiritual directions usually also cultish situations exist and I'd "recommend" them as well if a certain person is more inclined to that religion.

Regards,

:angel:
With folded palms,

<Erik>

User avatar
Free Thinker
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:05 am
Location: USA

Postby Free Thinker » Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:21 pm

Galeeb

Several of us have mentioned that we did have some very good experiences at the school. I think, at the heart of your confusion, is the fact that you were just in the earlier parts. Having grown up in the school with parents there, attending youth groups, etc., I joined for real when I was about 15. With a few qualms, I thoroughly enjoyed the earlier parts. I still use many of the exercises we learned and it certainly gave me a new way of moving, breathing, doing manual labor, and thinking about myself and my ego.

However, as with most cults, generally the early years are quite nice and it isn't until you've been a member for a while that you start to see what makes it a cult. I have many fond memories of being there, had some dear friends, and many enjoyable and enlightening experiences. However, the unenjoyable experiences and the "bad for your mind and soul" teachings really taint my opinion of the school, it's leaders, and it's organization, and would make it impossible to recommend it to someone else, despite the good qualities of the earlier parts.

Does this make sense? Feel free to post more, and I'd be happy to answer more questions.

FT

daska
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:29 pm
Location: UK

Postby daska » Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:14 am

Hi Galeeb

Yes, there were good things about the SES and the day schools. I just haven't met most of them for 20 years. Something which I'm looking forward to rectifying.

I'm glad you found what you needed in SES. I'm also glad you came to it freely and were allowed to leave freely, taking what you needed and leaving the rest behind.

Because it is that freedom or lack of it that, I feel, truly underpins the variety of emotions the ex-pupils of the day schools feel about the SES/day schools. Many of us were not free to leave, either the day school or SES. Many of us didn't even experience the freedom to question it at home, our parents reinforcing 'the truth'.

Very few of us would, I believe, claim we never ever smiled, laughed or enjoyed ourselves 'at times', I certainly did. The problem is that these moments of enjoyment were seldom because of the school, mainly despite it.

Redeeming features of SES? None that I can remember from my own experience and none that I can see from watching my dad - SES is his crutch in the same way some people rely on the church and others rely on alcohol.

redden
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:41 am
Location: Australia

Postby redden » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:16 pm

I too was amazed when I starting casually searching google for SOP/SES + cult. This has all been a revelation to me and I must say that I am concerned, confused and am just not sure who to trust any more. I attend SOP in Australia and while I knew about the link to SES, that's about all I knew. I know of a couple junior schools in Australia (not boarding schools) and that's it.

I am picking up the Secret Cult book tomorrow morning, but I'm not sure how relevant it and most of your experiences are to me. Please don't think that I am denying or belittling anyone's experiences or accounts, but I just don't know how much weight to place on what I have read, most of which I take happened 20-30 years ago in England, to what I am experiencing right now at the SOP in Australia. As you can fathom, I just don't know what to think any more.

I haven't had an evening class since I have discovered this forum and other sites, but later this week I have a class and I can picture myself looking at everyone differently to how I did last week. Are the people I trusted and thought of as my friends still the same people I thought they were only a few days ago? Are the couple of tutors that I have known and liked only part of a bigger conspiracy to brainwash and corrupt me?

I really didn't need this new information to come to light right now at this point in my life. Then again, maybe I did. I don't know ...

parent
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:23 am

Postby parent » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:12 pm

I do sympathise with you.

I too have met several very nice people that belong to the cult. No, not everyone is trying to brainwash you. Do not however think that these are events of 20 or 30 years ago. A lot of this is happening now. Not physical ofcourse (it is banned) but psychological.

Atleast you know and I prefer to lead my life informed as opposed to by chance.

All the best to you.

NYC
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:17 pm

to redden

Postby NYC » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:39 am

Hi redden,

I'm an adult student in new York. I wanted to draw your attention to an article I found very perceptive, by an academic philosopher who attended the SES first course in London & wrote it up at www.philosophers.co.uk/portal_article.php?id=28

He expresses very clearly that what the Schools in the different countries offer is not an academic survey of philosophies or an introduction to the philosophical method, but a particular philosophy, in the sense of a worldview.

I too was amazed at the dichotomy between what is described at the children's schools from inception up to at least the early '90s, and what I've personally experienced. However, I do feel I see traces of the same sexism and elitist self-satisfaction (though not the same level of violence) here in NY at the adult school; I describe one such episode I found telling at
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... c&start=30

redden, you sound very disheartened & disappointed to have found such an evil background to an org you may only have experienced positively. I know the feeling; but isn't it better (and safer for you) to hear this testimony?

NYC

User avatar
a different guest
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
Location: Australia

Postby a different guest » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:46 am

I am picking up the Secret Cult book tomorrow morning,

wait till you get to the bits about what it says about aussies!

I know of a couple junior schools in Australia

at which they apparently like to teach young girls how wonderful it is to "forgive and obey".

Snowman
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:31 am
Location: London

Postby Snowman » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:26 pm

I am not sure that many people are aware that there are new 'St James' schools being created around the world and that the 'St James Philosophy' is being peddled to all kinds of state and private schools around the UK.

I find this particularly interesting for the simple reason that the SES is being carefully extricated from any association with any philosophical influence on any school - formerly under the SES umberella or not. The system of infiltrating the community with the philosophical principles of the SES is becoming far more sophisticated but the principles, the principals and the practices are the same.

This has been happening for several years now and I can't believe that I've only just realised it. The same dangerous philosophy is now called the "St James Philosophy of education" and is being promoted by the Education Renaissance Trust - a charity run by senior members of the SES and St James.

There are still massive problems for the original St James schools in London and to take the philosophy of the school and apply it to the lives of thousands more children is extremely worrying. For all the protestations emanating fom the current heads that the schools have changed, we are still hearing contrary reports that the St James philosophy is psychologically damaging to its pupils. How can this be allowed to continue and indeed be allowed to expand its reach?

I have said previously that severe psychological damage was done to myself, my classmates, my family and my friends by this philosophy and its executors and I am shocked and absolutely saddened to see it still being inflicted on so many innocent minds. The cocktail of philosophical influences that has inspired the SES and it's schools is such a confused hypocrisy that ultimately encourages social division on a familial and societal level.

To always speak the truth was a core priciple that was drummed into us as pupils of St James/St Vedast and SES but the leaders of the school are consistently forgetful of this notion. In all aspects of the inquiry into discipline and pastoral care they have shown that they will not speak the truth - as long as it does not serve their needs. I think it is worth stating that the most important phrase in that is "pastoral care" - over and above anything else it is wholesome and diligent pastoral care that will inspire children. The "St James philosophy of education" does not amount to wholesome pastoral care it is a device that encourages division, envy, resentment, anxiety and fear.

mgormez
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:33 pm
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Postby mgormez » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:41 pm

redden wrote:I too was amazed when I starting casually searching google for SOP/SES + cult. [...] I really didn't need this new information to come to light right now at this point in my life. Then again, maybe I did. I don't know ...


What did you hope to find searching and why those words?
Mike Gormez

User avatar
Keir
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:04 am
Location: London

Postby Keir » Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:44 pm

Hi Redden,

Surely by reading the posts on this bb you will gain a broader perspective on the organisation you are a participant in. These testimonies are from a time 20-30 years ago, but you are in a position to make your own judgement whether any of the worst aspects of these people's experience exist in your own school. There have been many posts that give a positive view of the SES and also many contributors that despite testifying to abuse say they found some value in the teaching and social aspects of the SES.

There is not any immediate need to feel alienated from every aspect of your experience of the SES - It will take you quite a while to read all of the threads anyway. Just being aware of how it has happened in the past will make it possible to avoid it happening to you. Knowledge makes you stronger, not weaker.


Return to “General discussion of SES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 55 guests