adult school U.K - dont know what to think!

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
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non-conformist
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Postby non-conformist » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:19 pm

Katinka writes

"...our tutor went on to say that people who live useful and moral lives will stave off illnesses, including dementia among other things (note that she didn?t say they could lessen the chance of such illnesses, she actually implied that the illnesses could be prevented)..."

In 2003 I was diagnosed as being infertile, or at least sub-fertile. You can imagine how this made me feel, I don't need to elaborate I'm sure. I was then told by my mother that the reason I was infertile was because I did not meditate, and if I was in SES this would not have happened/be happening. Obviously I have not lived a useful and moral life.........

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:16 am

non-comformist - words fail me. How a mother could say this to you? I send you love, consideration, kindess, respect and whatever else I can, via this interent site, from Au.

katinka1969
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Postby katinka1969 » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:47 pm

Firstly, thanks so much to all who have replied and shared their experiences - your advice and support is more valuable than I can say, and very much appreciated.

Reading the horrific personal accounts related here has all but reduced me to tears, particularly those of ET, Non-conformist, the story of the woman who had the miscarriage, the condoning of sex with children under the guise of karma, the myriad of other stories I?ve read in various threads, I fear that the list is endless. My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected, and it makes me sick to my stomach to think that I?ve given money and time to these sadistic b*stards. I certainly feel that I?ve had a lucky escape.

Ross, I was looking back at your post of Friday 18 November, and your pondering of what attracts people to courses such as the ones allegedly on offer at the SES. I think it?s a very valid question and it would be interesting to see how many people were driven by similar circumstances.

My story begins just over 2 years ago. I had just begun a great new job, after a gruelling search which lasted almost a year. I had been extremely unhappy in my previous job for a variety of reasons, and I was feeling quite optimistic about my new venture yet very drained at the same time. My main concern was to ensure that I would never have a repeat performance of what I?d just been through, and I was very keen to eradicate any behaviours on my part that may have contributed to the situation that had transpired in my previous job. So, as clich?d as it sounds, one day I was waiting for the tube and noticed the well-known billboard, advertising the initial 12 week course with all the standard ?meaning of life? phrases on it, and it appeared to be exactly what I was looking for. The idea of studying philosophy hadn?t even occurred to me, however the prospect of finding a deeper understanding of myself, transcending fear etc. was very appealing. So I suppose I would fall into the category of people who feel dissatisfied with their lives and just can?t quite put their finger on the reasons behind it, and therefore they are probably quite susceptible to this kind of advertising.

The ?belonging and nurturing? aspect, which I agree is a big factor for many people who end up in cults, was not a significant thing for me, in fact I generally find this type of thing quite suffocating and intrusive - and I really feel that the lack of it has been instrumental in my getting away from the SES.

It?s all too clear now that the ?what do you think about that? routine that I used to see as a method by which to spark some debate, was always geared towards categorising attendees according to the degree to which they already believed the SES doctrine, and how far they had to go - and most of all whether they would be malleable enough to warrant the effort on the part of the tutors and ?plants? to influence them.

One question I?d like to ask - to what degree do you think that the tutors and their minions are brainwashed themselves, and to what degree are they fully conscious of the reasons why they are trying to find and retain new recruits and brainwash them? I imagine it?s a difficult point to generalise on, but there would surely be an overall trend.

ross nolan
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motivations ?

Postby ross nolan » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:07 am

Some general thoughts on the motivation and practices of SOP/SES, tutors etc. ( sparked by Katinka's musing and question about this and the ongoing revelations and personal stories )

Is there any generalized 'theory' of cults or patterns of behaviour and teachings that helps explain the existence and continuance of the SES?SOP.

Why do people form and join any groups that have to some degree the object of seperating themselves from the 'rest' of society ? -- this is one defining characteristic of all sects,cults etc and a lot of other clubs,societies etc -- on one hand people feel a need to belong to something bigger than themselves and on the other to feel themselves as 'special' and seperate from the society or nation at large .

Identification with a small ,exclusive sub culture with some sort of special status seems to make for feelings of importance for the individual and maybe acts to counteract the feelings of anonymity that come from being just one face in a vast crowd .

This splitting into smaller 'tribal' groups ,right down to the self contained nuclear family, automatically creates "insiders' and 'outsiders' and even to the extent of fostering an aire of 'siege' or persecution deliberatley .

Think about this;-some (putative) enlightened Guru typically attains his state of superior knowledge whilst sitting all alone on a remote mountain top yet somehow winds up 'franchising' this insight to tightly clustered devotees who spend little time in self directed contemplation and must conform rigidly to the ,now strictly prescribed, 'way to truth' .

Overcrowding in classes of "how to be a hermit" can be a problem.
All the great prophets seem to have arisen from adversity or isolation and to have had a compulsion to accumulate followers -- Buddha,Mohammed,Christ (although Christ is only supposed to have written a single word in the dust ,itself not recorded --if intending to be a leader of a new cult based on minute poring over voluminous fine printed text,( and enormous chunks of ostentaious architecture), it would seem Jesus set a poor example -- every religion is to some extent based on second hand ,and highly distorted, thought and "interpretation".

You can't really teach 'individual revelation 101' or 'iconoclastic faith' to a formula yet this is what is being sold. (the Socratic method and the western rational system are fundamentally different in this respect with the original drafts of the great thinkers like Pythagoras,Plato, etc through to Galileo,Newton, etc mostly in existence and not shrouded in mystery or based on self induced trance /self hypnosis/navel gazing etc etc -- the humanistic philosophers likewise base their insights on consistent reasoning -- normal teaching in schools follows the same path of arguing from first principles to derived facts whether in the natural sciences or human created fields including philosophy)

.

Hindu philosophy is supposed to be based on the personally experienced 'revelation' of 'transcendent' states of perception and the meditation thing is how this is to be attained -- all very passive and introspective as opposed to active involvement with the world and the Socratic method of interactive reasoning with others and basing the acceptance of beliefs on a system of logical deduction. How can anyone really tell if there is any wisdom or insight obtained by an inwardly looking experiental 'method' when "'it cannot be conveyed to others or described in mere words. it has to be directly experienced."

This seems mysterious and attracts those seeking enlightenment -- it is true that some things are very much dependent on actual experience and some emotional or mental state being attained -- but drug taking is another example as are the mass hysteria phenomenon or other' group dynamics that are real but in no way lead to wisdom or understanding.

What is real (for tutors) are a sense of importance , the attention and maybe later devotion of 'pupils', their vulnerability and suggestability, a sense of power and mutual interdependance of the leader and the led .-- maintaining this gives some incentive for continuing the whole thing from the tutors' position (plus possible financial and sexual favour rewards in many cults but maybe only near the top ). It would seem the idealistic reasons of 'making the world a better place' that ostensibly , and quite possibly, motivated the original goal of societal reconstruction, based on Henry George's ideas of a land tax based economy and elimination of poverty ,have been forgotten in favour of individual 'salvation' and communication of the mystical Eastern means to attaining self improvement in a world that is somehow 'beyond redemption '

Jehovah's Witnesses and other religious groups just waiting for "Armageddon' are probably more dangerous than those promoting endless reincarnation. -- Ronald Reagan had a belief that we were in 'the end time' as well as the big red button to start world war three and incipient alzheimer's -- not a good combination . It seems each generation wants to think it is THE final and ultimate one (therefore most important) and the basic Christian message is apocalyptic if taken literally and leads to pretty worrying conclusions about what to do (ditto for Islam as we are seeing ) Hindu terrorism also exists as in the Sri Lanka civil war case and most religions are inherently likely to cause damage.

The current "save the world" from Greenhouse apocalypse is also based on the need for a great "mission" to give meaning to individual existence with "good" and "evil" fighting it out (formerly Communism vs capitalism, or Islam vs Christendom or some other idealogical crusade ) and of course the 'them' and 'us' division -- Michael Crichton's "State of fear" is a good read based on the crusading zeal and ends-justified criminal means of fundamentalist environmental terrorists -- the 'state of fear' refers to the means by which people are manipulated by a psychological process of identifying a threat or an enemy to get them to behave as you wish -- by creating a 'cause' and opponents and a frame of mind like a war or state of siege people can be made to act "freely" without being aware of the underlying control . (and will accept loss of individual rights or self determination -- anything from rationing in war, to mute acceptance of "untouchable" shunning in Hindu India , to suspension of liberties to 'fight' terror etc .
The Erasmus school here and ST James school in England both emphasize the moral decay and lack of discipline "outside" the schools and the "deficiencies" in the standard education system to justify , it seems, the imposition of brutal physical discipline or 'loving discipline' as they term it and the school brochure says "concern about declining standards and the breakdown of discipline in schools prompted parents in the School of Philosophy to seek an education that would bring out the finest qualities in their children" .

Ie. the world is going to hell in a handcart and we have to take a stand to save our children .. we have external threat, mission for good and crusade to save us from the wicked . Hints of the real meaning of their euphemisms come through vaguely in the pages of the brochure but only really make sense in light of the testimonies of the former pupils of the British St James school (which the Erasmus school here is modelled on according to their brochure -- ditto for the adult schools )

Do the tutors and teachers really believe that teaching Sanskrit,Calligraphy, Meditation, ancient Hindu mythology and "loving" discipline to 8 year olds will somehow reverse a collapse of the rest of society ? Do you think they really believe in the' three Gunas' or the other dogma ?




The well known "Stockholm Syndrome" (sympathy for and identification with those holding others hostage or in fear , by their 'captives' ) comes into play at some point with 'salvation' type cults even if there is a conscious realization of fraudulent content of the teachings or the aim of the group .-- some of the reflections by "outed" SES members sound very much like this .

Strength of habit also leads to reluctance to admit the awful truth (better the devil you know than ......) - battered and abused wives put up with 'intolerable' situations rather than take the plunge and walk out because of the emotional investment factor and comfort of familiarity or routine in comparison to the unknown 'outside' . (of the group,the marriage or even paternalistic communism that traded opportunity for security with East Germany an example that has some degree of nostalgia ("Ostalgia") for a certain but constricted past .)

I saw the manipulative and coercive practices of Jehovah's witnesses in my own mother's case and recognized somewhat the same methodology in the approach of the SOP -- I think the self delusion and earnestness of the newly initiated is used by those (at the top), who know it is a house of cards in fact, to draw in more prospective members so that anyone looking critically at the tutors would probably conclude that they were genuine . Apparently scientology uses the same technique of putting the freshest, just inducted, new recruits to work spruiking the message to the public (they haven't developed the glazed over 'zombie' look yet or betray the real weirdness to come because they themselves have'nt become aware of it )

Maybe the tutors in the first stages of the SOP are also in this category and come over as trustworthy as a result -- I wonder what sort of turnover they have in their teaching ranks -- the tutor in my 'class' either was very inexperienced in the organization and teaching in general or did a good job to appear so -- his reading of the 'lessons' was stilted and seemed a little offhand as if trying to make it all 'folksy' and as benign seeming as possible -- only a trace of annoyance was evident when some challenging or contradictory response occurred , it was all very manipulative though in retrospect .

The sort of structural hierarchy of 'levels of enlightenment ' with a tantalizing promise of eventual letting in to a 'great secret'( that only the prepared mind can appreciate) is another common cult trait that no doubt keeps them coming back and doing the spade work -- you must presume that at some point though they see through the facade and then continue on for less forgiveable reasons.

Are there any ex tutors out there to make a 'mea culpa' on this ?

Anyway just some ruminations on what causes the tutors to give their time to the SOP without apparent reward and to teach what, those who have gone far enough along the path come to realize, is a really deceitful agenda with little to reccomend it .

If they started by offering a course in Indian Mythology or Hindu religious thought it would be different .

Ross.
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jojo
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Postby jojo » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:59 pm

Going back to the discussion on health issues and the SES / school attitude towards them brought up by Katinka and ET, I think it is a major issue, and would be very interested to here of more peoples experience.

As a child I suffered from numerous health problems and was reminded of an incident with my dad who was quite senior in the SES. I had been finally diagnosed with asthma and my dad overheard me talking about it to a friend and came over and stated quite firmly that ?no you don?t have asthma? ? looking back it was quite extraordinary, obvious it didn?t fit into his big plan, so lets just ignore the facts.
From all the messages I?d received over the years I was definitely left with the impression that my health problems were all my own fault, partly due to my weakness in exercising ?mind over matter? ? (all really in my head and so self created) but also some kind of punishment for past life misdemeanours.
I also remember the PE teacher approaching me at the beginning of one term and asking me if I had ?decided? that I was going to be well this term!!!

It is so ignorant and damaging to give anyone such a message especially a child. It is bad enough trying to deal with the problem and keeping up at school etc, but the added psychological impact makes it far worse. I remember sitting through class trying to wheeze silently so not to draw attention to my ?deficiencies? and would only use my inhaler (when I finally got one) in the toilet so no one could see. Likewise in PE I would always try and stand at the back of the class so no one would be looking at the back of my legs which were covered in eczema.
It became something to be ashamed of instead of just something which was a pain in the arse.

The fact is that the stressful experience of St J school life and SES home probably largely contributed to my poor health.

Another issue was the SES attitude to health CARE. Obviously under SES guidance modern medicine was to be avoided and my parents were directed to find alternative solutions. I was regularly dispatched to Dr Lato in Reading at great expense which they could ill afford (does anyone know what Lato?s links were to the SES because loads of people were sent to him). I remember a range of ?treatments? including cold showers, having to sleep with a garlic clove in my mouth over night, and eating a whole raw onion every day (must have reeked!!).
My health problems continued and I suffered far more than necessary. I had asthma for about 2 years before I had an inhaler, which meant most of my efforts were focussed on avoiding an attack (anyone who has had a major one knows how frightening they can be). Avoiding physical exertion, trees, grass, pets. I remember going on holiday on my own with 3 other SES families in the country (surrounded by all those asthma triggers) and having to just sit and watch while all the kids played, in fear of an attack. During the holiday I had a massive attack and with nothing to treat it and was away from my family, I was sh*t scared. I spend 2 hours bent over a kettle being instructed to inhale the steam and it was another few hours to really get under control, after which I was absolutely shattered and was not back to ?normal? until another 2 days. All of that could have been prevented by a couple of strays on an inhaler.
Considering attacks can be fatal it was highly irresponsible that no medical intervention was sought, but it just highlights how SES indoctrination overrides rational intelligent thought and action.

A final point at school I remembered a couple of senior SES members who died of cancer, and often wondered what the SES explanation to that was ? considering they were leading such ?truthful virtuous? lives. I know that sounds facetious but genuinely wondered what the SES response would be, as they always had an answer for everything.

I would be very interested to hear about other people?s experiences, but clearly from Katrina?s post the current day attitude is as bad as ever.

our tutor went on to say that people who live useful and moral lives will stave off illnesses, including dementia among other things (note that she didn?t say they could lessen the chance of such illnesses, she actually implied that the illnesses could be prevented). To counteract this claim I raised the point that my grandmother, who was a brilliant, dignified woman, active in the community, physically fit, read every book she could get her hands on etc., tragically developed Alzheimer?s Disease. To my astonishment the tutor went on to say that Alzheimer?s only happens to people who live a life of idleness, or don?t live morally or suchlike.

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Postby Matthew » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:15 pm

Hi jojo, yes I can empathise a lot with your account. There are numerous examples of how the schools ignore, dismiss, or attribute to bad "sanskara", pupil's medical conditions. Here are a couple of instances from my original testimony:-
Matthew wrote: We had weekends away at one of the school country houses. In mid-winter we rose at 5am. It was pitch dark outside and freezing cold. Mr Barber and Mr Southwell were warm and snug in their tracksuits. We wore thin little T-shirts and shorts and we were instructed to do a cross-country run. I happen to suffer from Nyctolopia (night-blindness). I kept running into trees and goal posts, at full tilt. I tried to tell them, but was told to shut-up, stop being a weakling (one of their favourite words), and get on with it. I fell into puddles and got completely drenched. On occasions it was so cold some of us suffered with chilblains. It was a terrifying experience. It was in every way like being in the army, the difference being we weren?t grown men who have chosen that way of life and have had medical approval.

That same winter I contracted an ear infection but was forbidden from wearing a balaclava to keep the ear warm. This resulted in the infection spreading into the right side of my face where I developed Bels Palsy, and partial nerve damage, which I still suffer with to this day.

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postcript

Postby ross nolan » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:42 am

These are truly horrendous reports about the health quackery of the SES -- it sounds very similar to the scientologists methods of "curing" people 'without drugs' and involving isolation or being forced to stay in the cold or alternatively their "sweating out" of drugs under the spurious Narconon program.

I suspect that this stems from somewhere in their dim past with the influence of Gurdjieff and the reputed Tibetan practice of being left sitting in the snow with a wet cloak over the bare body and having to dry it by intense meditation .

The documentary I referred to a few posts back about the child abuse in the Hare krishna schools was entitled "Faith and Fear; Children of Krishna" from KCTS television out of Seattle -- see www.kcts.org/productions/krishna if interested -- the story preceded the $400 million dollar lawsuit brought by the child victims of the same sort of Hindu inspired mental,physical and sexual abuse.

I hope that the harrowing personal testimonies being revealed here are being passed on to the StJames inquiry (even if not actually carried out in the school itself they certainly back up the evidence of warped SES beliefs being translated into actual mistreatment )

The scientologists base their ideas about health on the crazy invented history of space aliens some 75 000 000 years ago led by "Xenu" and the delusion that somehow the 'lost souls' of these vanquished warriors are 'possessing' people and they need to be driven out by scientology 'auditting' and occassionaly something that sounds a lot like (Christian) exorcism and similar damaging diet/purging etc practices .

It has been said that there are no links between scientology and the SES (despite the obvious similarities in their approach to illness treatment ) and I did not question this until I thought back to the actual Hindu mythology which quite clearly refers to mega battles between spaceships (Vimanas)and a sort of apocalyptic atomic war that leaves a few survivors with ancestral memories of the earlier times .

The 'downhill' philosophy of history is common to the "Garden of Eden' fall from grace , the lost "golden age" of Pericles and Greece and many other "Atlantis" type legends -- the outcome is a belief system that repudiates the modern ways in favour of the 'pure' or 'uncorrupted' ways of the honoured forefathers . That is what justifies their turning to folk medicine and the 'power of the mind' etc . -- the interest in Sanskrit and the vedic texts stems directly from this .

I bought an interesting second hand book at the Erasmus school fete last week "In search of heaven on earth' by Rachel Storm (Bloomsbury pub) which has the back cover blurb " puts today's New Age into it's historical perspective. Hundreds of fascinating facts about cults and cult leaders .etc"

On pages 25 to 29 it goes into the background of the SES and the influences of Gurdjieff /Ouspensky on Mc Claren ..
quote " The gurus who had influenced McClaren's change of heart were none other than the two philosopher mystics Gurdjieff and Ouspensky . Following a car crash....... Gurdjieff turned instead to writing . The resulting book ," All and everything; Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson" , deserves recognition as one of the most obscure books to have been penned . "It was the year 223 after the creation of the World....Through the Universe flew the ship Karnak of the 'trans- space communication'. he wrote . The bizarre science fiction world Gurdjieff created finds a later echo in the work of the American L.Ron.Hubbard , founder of the Church of Scientology. As part of his science of mental health. Hubbard describes how Xemu, an evil tyrant who lived seventy five million years ago, froze people in alcohol and glycol and dropped nuclear bombs on them." end quote.

Another anti scientology website urges the technique of printing up the ridiculous "Xenu" story (the spelling varies) and handing them out in front of scientology 'churches' and where the scientologists are trying to rope in new recruits to thereby confront the ,initially intriguing, scientologist spruikers with the facts of their stupid teachings and to deflate the 'mysterious' great revelation that they say their study of scientology will lead to.

Maybe the SES needs this too. At least a modern "Secret Cult" book (?)

Again from "In search.." , ... Leon Mc Claren in 1947 took over the reins of the SES ...attended the Society for the study of normal psychology.. who believed they hit upon the source of Gurdjieff's teaching... in the Shankaracharya.. who Mc Claren visited ... Vedanta school.... world is an illusion ".... etc . " In addition to the Vedantic and Gurdjieffian input, the school of economic science has taken on board the vision of utopia portrayed in Plato's ' The Republic ' There, society is based on a highly disciplined class system -comparable to the Hindu caste system ... ruled by the Philosopher Rulers .. these 'saviours of society' 'will have to employ a great deal of fiction and deceit for the benefit of their subjects' because "philosophy is not possible among the common people" (Pg 29 )

Hmmmm.

To the great unwashed this seems like standard cult or secret society stuff not unlike say Freemasonry or many Christian fringe sects , or certain Buddhist etc teachings -- study of philosophy it ain't.

So, to the inferred question behind 'The SES ? - don't know what to think'

the 'answer' could be as simple as "for yourself" -- if any organization attempts to stifle your critical reason or acts to conceal it's motives then you can be fairly sure it is not benign -- an informed examination of the SES from an unbiased viewpoint does not commend them -- from the point of view of someone sucked in or abused as a relatively defenceless child it is just a horrible exploitative and mentally damaging thing - that somehow impinges on your life and tries to coerce young vulnerable minds, cloaking itself in the authority of adults and the trappings of respectability, confusing and discouraging of any resistance or questioning....... I could see the subtle signs of this at the erasmus school -- "very well behaved" and 'self disciplined" students could also be confused,suppressed,and cowered with no one to talk to outside of the cult and fearing to voice their thoughts .

I have heard stories from friends about the Montessori and Steiner schools that indicate a failure of the goverment authorities to adequately monitor what is going on in these schools as well -- it is a difficult call to not deny some choice in schooling or religions but I cannot help concluding that a secular society would be better all round -- it seems that the SES and scientology are neither religions nor scientific or philosophical bodies but outgrowths of bizarre science fiction ideas grafted to deliberately mystical Eastern superstition.

What to think indeed.

Ross.
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Alban
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Postby Alban » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:52 pm

jojo wrote:...I was regularly dispatched to Dr Lato in Reading at great expense which they could ill afford (does anyone know what Lato?s links were to the SES because loads of people were sent to him). I remember a range of ?treatments? including cold showers, having to sleep with a garlic clove in my mouth over night, and eating a whole raw onion every day (must have reeked!!).


Hi Jojo,

I had to see Dr Lato too, normally at some ridiculous time in the morning so I could get back to school in time. He seem to treat everything with diet (no sugar or milk), massage, cold showers, onion and garlic, and a variety of herbal teas! Personally I stilll extol the virtues of Garlic and onion in pursuit of general well-being, but they were not the answer to asthma, eczema or any other of the ailments that he was apparently treating.

I'm not sure he was in the SES, but I think they liked him because they saw his methods as being "Traditional" with the emphasis on self-improvement - i.e. cut out the last few things that you enjoy, and then punish your body into good circulation with a freezing cold shower.

Typically, I saw no improvement.

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non-conformist
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Dr Lato

Postby non-conformist » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:48 pm

JoJo

My gosh!! Dr Lato is such a blast from the past. I remember having to go to Reading with my poor mum having to drive all the way there. Did you discover the delights of the trampoline in his back garden? I remember having a great time there, but of course he did absolutely nothing for my eczema.... I still suffer with it, but stranger than fiction it got better after I left home and stopped eating carob and fructose and avoiding dairy...

daska
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Postby daska » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:53 pm

I had forgotten the trampoline! The only good bit about getting up at 3 in the morning or whatever time it was. My herbal tea was lime flower. And I had to have massage.

ab
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Re: adult school U.K - dont know what to think!

Postby ab » Thu May 18, 2006 6:20 am

katinka1969 wrote:I gather that you are probably a term or two behind me, I am now doing "Philosophy 7", and this term we are covering the subject of "devotion".


Just wondering if people might be able to comment on the different 'syllabi' they have experienced at different levels and in different locations.

My experience several years ago [which I will post in more detail soon ... have only just discovered the board, and am still shell-shocked!] got as far as the second week in 'Philosophy 1' here in Melbourne, before I realised something was fishy.

I'd be interested to see what gems of wisdom have been imparted to others further into the 'courses'.

ross nolan
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AB's question

Postby ross nolan » Mon May 22, 2006 4:59 am

Hi AB, just read your other posting -- your experience and reaction was just about word perfect to my own (also at Silver Birches Croydon and at the Royal Society building ) -- I was going to post the syllabus on the earlier thread asking why did people get involved ..

Perhaps you could do a search on my name to find it -- topics tend to get pushed back as new threads get posted even though the more fundamental factors got examined at the start of the forum .

I agree with your assessment on your "Melbourne school" thread -- I gather your experience was about four years ago but clearly you have not forgotten even the detail of the experience and the sense of disbelief and discord at what was going on .

For quite a few months I have been trying to get the SOP removed from the Royal Society building as it is undeniably anti scientific ,at least, religious and highly misrepresented -- I was assured by the President of the Royal Society that they would be told to go after he investigated and found them doing 'the exercise' and apparently worshipping the photo of the Guru (the "Shankaraya" sic ) -- definitely not an appropriate activity to have the imprimatur of the Royal (Scientific) Society.

To me it is like nearly falling into a missing man hole cover opening in the street and then having to decide if you keep going and thank your luck or feel some responsibility to remove the danger to others.

The defence of truth is fundamental to science and should perhaps answer the question for a scientist.

If you are serious about doing something to remove the ongoing danger to others please PM me.
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