Page 2 of 5

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:40 am
by a different guest
Quite obviously the average Indian peasant seemed to accord greater staus to the English administrator/soldier etc than to their own home grown holy men if the English 'occupation' of India is anything to go by

You been watching The Man who would be King on cable Ross?

ADG monitoring my viewing?

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:33 am
by ross nolan
Dearest ADG -- does this mean we are speaking to each other again ?

(that's OK by me -- let's save the vitriol for the real nasties who merit it -- our good friends at the SES / SOP)

Sorry to say I haven't seen or can't recall (offhand) the film " the Man who would be king" but some of my more unused neurons are hinting it might have had David Niven in it (?) My poorly composed piece was just trying to make the point that the "Sahib" and "Memsahib" automatically got accorded "Godlike" status or at least treated like 'masters' because they had manufactured an air of superiority about themselves that their 'inferiors' accepted with little thought.

(the same technique that certain teachers employ to get obediance and subservience and establish control) ....

The European managed to gain control over the much more numerous "dark" races with ridiculously little difficulty in hindsight -- the conquering of the great civilizations of middle and South America by a mere handful of Spaniards (yes a bit of smallpox etc helped ) and the control of South Africa, The Congo ,our own dear Australia ,etc etc , and not least India -- even Gandhi could not count on a general uprising against the English but had to settle for a cedeing of control in return for helping to win the war and civil disobediance .

Surely the conquering of vast stretches of the world was a 'mind control' thing far more than it was merely due to better guns and so on -- let's not overlook the 'unshakable' certainty in the righteousness of his cause,his religion and his civilization that propelled the English (inhabitants of a rather cramped little dampish island off the coast of Europe) and a few other colonizing white nations to rule much if not most of the world and very seldom with the sort of bloodbath wars that they had fought amongst themselves .
Usually a little "show of force' and a few "public examples" resulted in a lay down mazaire from the locals and the institution of the ways and culture of the victors. As you have observed of myself ,- there is the tendency to treat with contempt the backward and unsophisticated beliefs and teachings of the more 'primitive' less technologically advanced societies that the English discovered in their wanderings (perhaps not always completely justifiably ....)

The rather remarkable trend in the last forty years or so has been for Westerners (particularly the disaffected youth but actually the bowler hatted middle class in the case of the SES) to repudiate their own worth and acheivements and to turn to the East for guidance in how to run their affairs -- the 'hippy trail' of the early sixties and prior to that the bringing of sacred Eastern wisdom to the crass materialistic West by Gurdieff et al

It seems that the very antiquity of these belief systems is seen as being in their favour (by the SES also) -- this being the "reason" for studying the Upanishads,Vedas and other ancient and verbose writings of the early Indian civilization (Hindus ) and only giving prominence to the "old masters" of philosophy from Socrates to no younger than the European enlightenment -- specifically the English philosophers like Hume.Locke etc are totally ignored and dismissed and the "English cult" as it is known draws it's primary dogma from anything but English thinkers. (this is the 'not without honour....' effect )

I think we have to distinguish between METHODS and CONTENT in looking at the SES schools, DAY and NIGHT -- I believe the methods of teaching the young are directly attributable to Erasmus -- both the 'loving discipline' and pedantic attention to correct behaviour , the training of young girls and status of women, marriage etc are all straight Erasmus . (who himself obviously took inspiration from the Greeks) the adult schools are equally obviously using techniques of psychological manipulation (brain washing,semi hypnosis, etc) to convey the outdated Medieval European, ancient Greek ,quasi Hindu and other Eastern religious teachings -- the content of the junior schools is heavily biased to the 'venerable' old ways including a dead language like Sanskrit and even Indian dancing -- again an example of the reversal of cultural transfer and rejection of the British and European in favour of the ancient and Eastern (that even those societies have abandoned in favour of the European model ) -- it is neccesary to travel to the most isolated and ,dare I say it, backward parts of the East to find these inspirational mystics who are not seen as having any great revelations of value to their own countries by their own people who are by and large striving to emulate the undeniable success of the modern western model.

Gandhi held back the real emancipation from poverty of his people by harking back to the village subsistence model, homespun clothes and handmade goods etc -- he did reject the caste system of 'born an untouchable always an untouchable' but otherwise failed to recognize the English contribution to alleviating poverty by industrial advance eg the railways, sewerage etc etc.

Only the 'modern saint ' Mother Theresa did as much to hold back Indian progress away from the religious burden of Hinduism -- she was equally fatalistic and theistically constrained as was Gandhi -- she saw suffering of the peasants as "God's will" rather than simple evidence of backward and inefficient ways of living permeated by religious 'sacred cows' in thought.
She refused to administer pain killers to the dieing because this was against God's intentions for them .likewise contraception, euthenasis, and any scientific or technological solutions to the causes of abject poverty.

That the SES should somehow discern the superiority of this sort of system over secular westernism is beyond me . (need to ask a guru ...)

I'll look up "the man who would be king" (sounds like it might be the reaction to "Gunga Din" which I am sure would be more approved by the SES ,, noble savage stuff and all... )

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:44 am
by a different guest
Sorry to say I haven't seen or can't recall (offhand) the film " the Man who would be king" but some of my more unused neurons are hinting it might have had David Niven in it (?)

Nup. Try Sean Connery and Michael Caine. Directed by John Huston from a Kipling story.

The movie is a classic. If you don't know it your education is sadly lacking ;)

As to the rest of your post - I wish you would keep it short - I have such a short attention span you know. :P

mystic guru

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:07 pm
by nomad
Okay, I haven't posted in ages. I have since left the NYC school when I realized that it was in fact not a school of philosophy as they have originally stated and marketed to millions on the is really a hindu cult of which I do not wish to be a part of. Firstly, they have misrepresented who they are and what their intentions are, secondly, I was taken aback by a friend doing the actual meditation ceremony and being initiated in Wallkill, NY and being told in detail previously in adult night school class about everything that happens but told nothing of this mystic guru swami picture which you end up praying to and kneeling down in front of! I figured I better walk away before getting sucked in like everybody else and donating time shining their brass door knobs of their 20 million townhouse and donating money. I feel terrible for the parents who send their children to this school thinking they are getting one type of education where in fact it is a scam.

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:57 pm
by leon
ross nolan wrote: and even Indian dancing -- again an example of the reversal of cultural transfer and rejection of the British and European in favour of the ancient and Eastern (that even those societies have abandoned in favour of the European model )

"even Indian dancing" passing over for now your usage of the crass blanket term "indian" used to describe a classical genre that has many rich and diverse regional schools and traditions spanning centuries and a tone that would not be out of place in BNP rally I am perplexed why you consider anyone who studies or absorbs non- western art to be guilty of 'rejection of the British and the European' and not indulging a pursuit that can be enlightening and lead to new idioms as it did so in the case of Blues and Jazz? (and ultimately rock and other popular styles)
Indian African and Asian classical musics both ancient and modern all use devices and techniques that are as advanced as any that are found in western classical music, study and analysis only leads to musical and philosophical and aesthetic enrichment. I don't see how you can be familiar with european art and culture (especially art of the 20th Century) and not be aware of the large part those, as you put it, ' backward and unsophisticated' cultures have contributed both directly and indirectly.

Have you actually read the Upanishads, Mahabharata,Vedas that you can dismiss them so casually? Have you actually read for that matter Hume Locke and Kant? Or the logical positivists? I find many parallels between philosophers such as Berklee Kant Wittgenstein and certain passages in the Upanishads.

To pull this back on track, St James was profoundly irresponsible in exposing the more esoteric and powerful elements of Hindu mysticism to young children, in the same way it would have been wrong to intensively instruct existentialism surrealism or dadaism. They are also wrong in misleading parents into the true nature of the school. The state funded faith schools in London, Jewish, Muslim and Christian/Catholic etc are all completely transparent, St James should be so too.

Mystic Guru who guides the SES and St. James Schools

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:42 am
by Justice
The only person we havent heard from so far on this Bulletin Board is Vasudevananda Saraswati, the Mystic Guru who guides the SES and St. James.

What does he think about the Independent Inquiry?

Was he consulted by the Governors who are mostly, if not exclusively members of the SES and presumably kneel in front of his photo to pray on a regular basis?

What does he think about the allegations of "criminal assault" on pupils at St. James / St. Vedast?

Has anyone ever met him or spoken to him? Does anyone have his email address?

Presumably he was involved in a recent decision by Hindu gods turn to down plans for a Himalayan ski resort close to where he lives?

See the following link for details:

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:15 pm
by Free

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:12 pm
by Free Thinker
Free - whoever you are, thanks for all of the links and information. In my 19 years at the SoPP, no one ever told us about him other than that he was the spiritual guide in India and reading quotes from him in classes.

Sounds like a great guy - I love religious intolerance and violence :rollseyes:

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:00 pm
by Sam Hyde
FREE, thank you for you?re lengthily post, you obviously put a lot of work into it. I am pleased you have shed so much light on the topic, especially intriguing was the charity that you claim the 'SES' set up, it obviously exists however I am dubious as to its origins and intentions. You know we are not the only odd balls that study the Vedic Tradition and Sanskrit. This, by the way is slowly being weaned off the compulsory syllabus. That is to say, 'Vedic math?s' is now not taught (I am about 6 years too late to be fully up to date) at a junior level of senior school. We are even using proper Key Stage text books, which is no doubt good news and have been for a few years. Vedic maths and wonderful methods such as werticly and cwoss wise all from 9 blah blah are certainly the cause of my mathematical genius! Maybe Vedic English is to blame too, but in the mean time Mr. Wray will suffice as the cause to my troubles! LOL

Seriously, I will note the name of the charity you mentioned, dig deep and see what I can find. A good place to start no doubt would be in front of the school in Friday assembly! :d Then maybe Mr. Lambie on the up and coming FOUNDERS DAY! (whoo ooooo)

all the best Sam xox

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:57 pm
by Alban
Great effort Free - thank you very much.

There is loads there I didn't know, most noteably about the funding the SES are providing to him and his clan.

However, the first thing that struck me is...He doesn't sound particularly enlightened (whatever that really means!)


The Mystic Guru who guides the SES and St. James Schools

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:29 am
by Justice
Apparently, during the Summer Vasudevananda Saraswati lives in Jyotir Math in the Himalayas and in in the winter he stays in Allahabad.

Worth remembering if you plan to visit him.

Re: Who is Vasudevanand?

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:01 am
by mgormez
Free wrote:With apologies to all for the length of the post, a full answer to the questions regarding ?who is Vasudevanand? ?

Perhaps we should also copy these gems somewere to the forum distinct from this thread because after 2 days you can't remember where you have read it. A sub-section of articles as many other forums have.

Anyone any opinion on that?

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:25 am
by Matthew
Yes Mike, good idea.

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:58 am
by james
I know who the "Mystic Guru" is! its the chief umpalumpa from charlies chocolate factory. Mystic Guru! lmao you guys /girls are funny!

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm
by Sam Hyde
And he wears an orange bed sheet! Sports a long wisely grey beard a fat wallet by the sounds of it.

I have 2 plans....

1)Ask Boddy about the Charity set up to support his Ashram, not boddy's lol Mr Fox did that for him! hehehe
2) Ask the following question: "Sir, here at school you teach us to be leaders, what are we to think if the governors of '75-'87 do not resign? Doesnt a great leader recognise defeat and wilfully 'fall on his sword' "?

should go down a storm....thursday morning It will be done my friends.

Sam xox (The mood did need enlightenment jimbo)