Brilliant, Leon! Many thanks.
Current pupils, is this sort of thing taught at St James nowadays?
Tom
Sanskrit language - pros and cons
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ses-surviver
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leon wrote:"The sixteen Swara are the sixteen measure of the universe. It is rare for a man to develop more than 4 Shakti, and this over a period of many lives. Mozart developed only one. a fully realised man has developed all 16."
"It is in the first 16 years of life that real development takes place. after 16 there is no further possibility of real spiritual development in the course of the particular embodiment. (incarnation).
Really? If that's the case, its hardly worth anyone bothering with the SES if there is very little possibility of 'real spiritual development'. I suppose that all people can do is work off a bit of sanscara and hope that their incarntaion next time means that they get sent to St James
I wouldn't mind a source on that bit, too, ses-survivor. Leon, could you oblige?
The rest I've heard, in more or less the same form. I studied Sanskrit for a few years at the school, but I ended up having too much on my plate and gave it a miss. The mystical element was certainly emphasised, but there's also the practical aim of reading scripture and ancient texts in the original language (which becomes less practical when you realise that learning it for 30 years just about gets you an intermediate appreciation).
That said, I did enjoy Sanskrit in and of itself - which I think is supposed to be the point. I just had to make a choice regarding time commitments.
The rest I've heard, in more or less the same form. I studied Sanskrit for a few years at the school, but I ended up having too much on my plate and gave it a miss. The mystical element was certainly emphasised, but there's also the practical aim of reading scripture and ancient texts in the original language (which becomes less practical when you realise that learning it for 30 years just about gets you an intermediate appreciation).
That said, I did enjoy Sanskrit in and of itself - which I think is supposed to be the point. I just had to make a choice regarding time commitments.
The kids in the junior school seem to love it too. Possibly because there aren't so many of those funny words that are spelt the same but sound different. Once you've learnt a letter thats what it is. Personally I couldn't wait to give it up but it doesn't half come in useful when people go: this is an Om, it's really brilliant and you can reply 'yeah, I know the rest of the alphabet as well, hand us a pen...'
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Saint James
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how can you see if kids really love sanskrit, if ...
they have no choice and are forced to learn it?
Re: how can you see if kids really love sanskrit, if ...
Saint James wrote:they have no choice and are forced to learn it?
Yeah - it's compulsory from the earliest years at Erasmus in Melbourne, which has the same curriculum as the St James junior school. My kids are learning Chinese, which has a little more immediate practical application.
A little Sanskrit story
Once at Waterperry (with my group) we were sitting at those big caligraphy boards with those wooden ink pens with the gold reservoir you dipped into the black ink bottle (remember? - the stuff that took ages to get off your fingers). We had the board set at 45 degrees - which was exciting - we usually had them at 90 degrees - and were using the 45 degree sanskrit nibs.
I have no recollection at all about what we were copying out other than that it was in Sanskrit, there was a lot of it, and the task involved being as neat as possible.
I was sitting somewhere close to the back and my memory tells me there was another child with me. (If you were lucky there would be another child in your group, although they were usually not in your peer group.)
It was deathly boring. No sound other than the scratching of pens. A long time until afternoon tea. I amused myself by arranging the words on the page in such a way that the spaces spelt "Pink Floyd". I was explaining this in whispers to my fellow child and inadvertantly attracted the attention of the group tutor - Mrs Mitchell who slid over to look at my work. She instantly saw that I was writing something in the spaces and with an indulgent smile asked what it was.
I can't remember her name, but she had a daughter called Bryony (my hands still tremble as I type the letters) who was the total object of my desire - but to whom tragically I was completely invisible. A side effect of this was that I always wanted to appear brilliant and good in her mother's eyes.
Fortunately art was never my strong suit and the invisible letters remained impenetrable to Mrs Mitchell's inquiring gaze. I was, however, reduced to a mumbling mess by the experience and think her good opinion of me was irretrievably compromised.
Wow - I thought that story was going to the grave with me.
I have no recollection at all about what we were copying out other than that it was in Sanskrit, there was a lot of it, and the task involved being as neat as possible.
I was sitting somewhere close to the back and my memory tells me there was another child with me. (If you were lucky there would be another child in your group, although they were usually not in your peer group.)
It was deathly boring. No sound other than the scratching of pens. A long time until afternoon tea. I amused myself by arranging the words on the page in such a way that the spaces spelt "Pink Floyd". I was explaining this in whispers to my fellow child and inadvertantly attracted the attention of the group tutor - Mrs Mitchell who slid over to look at my work. She instantly saw that I was writing something in the spaces and with an indulgent smile asked what it was.
I can't remember her name, but she had a daughter called Bryony (my hands still tremble as I type the letters) who was the total object of my desire - but to whom tragically I was completely invisible. A side effect of this was that I always wanted to appear brilliant and good in her mother's eyes.
Fortunately art was never my strong suit and the invisible letters remained impenetrable to Mrs Mitchell's inquiring gaze. I was, however, reduced to a mumbling mess by the experience and think her good opinion of me was irretrievably compromised.
Wow - I thought that story was going to the grave with me.
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years
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a different guest
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Saint James
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Sanskrit Language IQ test
As there are a lot of people who speak Sanskrit, is there a translation for "Pink Floyd" into Sanskrit language? Just to find out whether such basic words can be translated into that language, or not? Thanks.
Pink Floyd
Hi SJ,
Now you are testing me. There are others who will be able to answer this question much better but I'll have a stab. The last time I used any of this was 1977.
I remember there being 25 consonants which are arranged in a 5 x 5 matrix. Each column is spoken with a different part of the mouth - the first column is gutteral (in the throat) and the last labial (with the lips).
Each column contains 5 consonants grouped 2,2,1. So the gutteral consonants are K, Kh, G, Gh, Ng - each pronounced with a short ah (as in bucket) afterwards. The 2nd and 4th are called "aspirated", the 5th is nasal. The labial consonants are P, Ph, B, Bh, M.
This is where writing English words becomes difficult. There is no "F" - instead there is "Ph", which is pronouned P-Huh only quicker.
The full 25 are something like (don't forget the ah after each one): K, Kh, G, Gh, Ng, Ch (actually more like Kya), Chha, J (again more like gya), Jh, Ngy, T, Th, D, Dh, N, (and now more to the front), T, Th, D, Dh, N, and finally P, Ph, B, Bh, M.
With me so far?
Vowels is another ball game. The default vowel is ah (still as in bucket), but there are others - again 5 in all. I think these are A, E, (pick), O (pop), O (pop but further forward) and U (as in the noise you make when Owen misses an open goal in injury time and you're now into a penalty shoot out against a south american team).
There is more to vowels but let's stop here for a second.
There are a few other sounds - three R's (different from the post war meaning), and three S's - though we don't need these for this exercise.
OK let's have a go...
Pink. I actually say PingK - not sure if this a speech defect. (I also say chraffic (rather than traffic - which I think is acceptable but couldn't quite tell) - sanskrit makes you pick up wierd proununciation. I also used to say botato rather than potato but I really do think that was a mistake so I changed it - thank you SES!) Anyway assuming you accept we are writing Pingk rather than Pinnk then...
"P" with a modifier to change the sound from "ah" to "e" (pick), followed by (here it gets a bit dodgy) Ng modified so there is no "ah" afterwards (I think this is called Hallant), followed by K (also hallant).
Floyd presents more problems. Firstly as mentioned about there is no "F", only "Ph" (P-Huh - remember?). OK now I need L - I've totally forgetten about them but I suppose the are like R or S mentioned above (someone help me please). I think there is a modifier to Ph to introduce the L. Now we get to the hardest part. Oy. The 5 pure vowels about can be tightened (A, Ae, Ai - as in pike) etc, O, Oa, Oy. So you add the Oy modifier and then finish off with a hallant D.
Incidentally I was taught that O was pure, Oa was OK, and Oi was demonic (a bit like some of those intervals in music being favoured or unfavoured before they introduced tempering to make them all the same - oops getting into music again).
So Floyd is a bad word.
OK there you have it.
Now someone (a current pupil I think would be the ticket - Sam? I think you said you like Sanskrit didn't you?) needs to write it out in sanskrit, scan it and post it as a response - at the same time correcting all my mistakes - of which I am sure there are a number. I'm hoping for a "C" but wouldn't be surprised if it is "D" or "E".
Finally it is worth adding that as it is a dead language, we cannot really be sure about any of the pronunciation (that'll probably start a whole new round of contributions in it's own right.)
Cheers,
Ben
Now you are testing me. There are others who will be able to answer this question much better but I'll have a stab. The last time I used any of this was 1977.
I remember there being 25 consonants which are arranged in a 5 x 5 matrix. Each column is spoken with a different part of the mouth - the first column is gutteral (in the throat) and the last labial (with the lips).
Each column contains 5 consonants grouped 2,2,1. So the gutteral consonants are K, Kh, G, Gh, Ng - each pronounced with a short ah (as in bucket) afterwards. The 2nd and 4th are called "aspirated", the 5th is nasal. The labial consonants are P, Ph, B, Bh, M.
This is where writing English words becomes difficult. There is no "F" - instead there is "Ph", which is pronouned P-Huh only quicker.
The full 25 are something like (don't forget the ah after each one): K, Kh, G, Gh, Ng, Ch (actually more like Kya), Chha, J (again more like gya), Jh, Ngy, T, Th, D, Dh, N, (and now more to the front), T, Th, D, Dh, N, and finally P, Ph, B, Bh, M.
With me so far?
Vowels is another ball game. The default vowel is ah (still as in bucket), but there are others - again 5 in all. I think these are A, E, (pick), O (pop), O (pop but further forward) and U (as in the noise you make when Owen misses an open goal in injury time and you're now into a penalty shoot out against a south american team).
There is more to vowels but let's stop here for a second.
There are a few other sounds - three R's (different from the post war meaning), and three S's - though we don't need these for this exercise.
OK let's have a go...
Pink. I actually say PingK - not sure if this a speech defect. (I also say chraffic (rather than traffic - which I think is acceptable but couldn't quite tell) - sanskrit makes you pick up wierd proununciation. I also used to say botato rather than potato but I really do think that was a mistake so I changed it - thank you SES!) Anyway assuming you accept we are writing Pingk rather than Pinnk then...
"P" with a modifier to change the sound from "ah" to "e" (pick), followed by (here it gets a bit dodgy) Ng modified so there is no "ah" afterwards (I think this is called Hallant), followed by K (also hallant).
Floyd presents more problems. Firstly as mentioned about there is no "F", only "Ph" (P-Huh - remember?). OK now I need L - I've totally forgetten about them but I suppose the are like R or S mentioned above (someone help me please). I think there is a modifier to Ph to introduce the L. Now we get to the hardest part. Oy. The 5 pure vowels about can be tightened (A, Ae, Ai - as in pike) etc, O, Oa, Oy. So you add the Oy modifier and then finish off with a hallant D.
Incidentally I was taught that O was pure, Oa was OK, and Oi was demonic (a bit like some of those intervals in music being favoured or unfavoured before they introduced tempering to make them all the same - oops getting into music again).
So Floyd is a bad word.
OK there you have it.
Now someone (a current pupil I think would be the ticket - Sam? I think you said you like Sanskrit didn't you?) needs to write it out in sanskrit, scan it and post it as a response - at the same time correcting all my mistakes - of which I am sure there are a number. I'm hoping for a "C" but wouldn't be surprised if it is "D" or "E".
Finally it is worth adding that as it is a dead language, we cannot really be sure about any of the pronunciation (that'll probably start a whole new round of contributions in it's own right.)
Cheers,
Ben
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years
PS
PS It's after 10pm here (in Sydney this time) and I am getting up at 4.30am to take part in the Sydney BRW triathlon - a swim in the harbour, followed by bike and run. See how much I care about you all - sitting here writing when I should be sleeping...
Night night.
Night night.
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years
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