new thread for adult school joiners why did you join ?

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

new thread for adult school joiners why did you join ?

Postby ross nolan » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:20 am

For 'night schoolers' -those who were 'recruited' by the SES/SOP via advert . What did you expect to find? What were you looking for ? What did you find ?
Last edited by ross nolan on Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Skeptic

ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Sorry, the title was meant to be "night schoolers etc&q

Postby ross nolan » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:52 am

If you were 'press ganged' into the SES by family via the St James schools or some other associated school then you had little or no say in becoming involved , likewise if your family had 'always been' in the SES and you became involved without any conscious decision on your part ie just grew up in it then you will possibly resent the fact that you might have missed out on various aspects of normal growing up -- such things as rock music, 'normal' schooling freedoms and absence of physical punishment etc are frequently mentioned .

It is understandable that children would have negative reactions to this sort of constrained upbringing and probably missing some of the closeness of family life and other things flowing from the SES 'lifestyle'.
As has been pointed out many times -- those who came under the influence of the SES as children had no say in the matter and no 'way out' as in they could not leave at will. They also had neccesarily little prior experience to judge the conduct of their teachers and parents and compare it to society norms nor did they have much power to act when they felt things were wrong.

These issues are being well covered by the specific threads dealing with experiences at the St James schools and also by the Townend report.

What is less dealt with is the people who were 'voluntarily' exposed to the SES teachings in that they made a decision to 'check out' the organization probably by being attracted by the public adverts in the underground railway or newspapers.

Most usually (but not always) these people would be mature age and most likely of a mind seeking some of the philosophical understandings and answers being offered by the adverts -- even though not compelled or forced to attend the teachings and being experienced in life to some degree many people speak of being 'sucked in' and feeling 'betrayed' or 'brainwashed' after coming to a realization that they had been deceived or otherwise felt 'conned' 'let down' ' misled' or some other unsatisfactory outcome . (possibly also losing considerable time and money plus family ties,friends etc in the process)

Perhaps some personal testimonies of this class of SES /SOP 'victims' or ex members ,attendees might give some indication of the size of the problems that have resulted and how people feel about their experience now, perhaps what should be done to counteract or 'repair' the damage done or just to share anecdotes,feelings and ideas --?

Clearly this will be on a different level to the reminiscences of ex day school students and a new thread like this might give a forum for discussing such thoughts and feelings.

I will end this into posting before my connection drops out and post my own experience and a few thoughts next.

Feel free to post your story.
Skeptic

ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

why join the SES

Postby ross nolan » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:04 am

I just worked out how to edit the incorrect thread heading.

This is intended to be a place where people who saw one of the ads( most probably) decided to 'look into' the school of philosophy and then to describe what they found there and what effect it had had on them.

Or perhaps attended some sort of public event and was curious or felt attracted and "checked it out" or got seriously involved , maybe a friend joined or some other event got you interested.

Or were you 'looking for something' to make your life more meaningful or wanted those answers to the mysteries of life that perhaps other religions and groups had also offered or claimed to have?

Had you come out of some other religion or cult , were you in a stressful life event or needing to re orient your life ,questioning your former beliefs or contemplating mortality, questioning western materialism , going through mid life crisis or seperation, needing intellectual stimulation or any other 'motivation' to become involved ? I can remember the question being asked at the first session of the intoductory course and notes being taken ..all these reasons and more were brought up.

(Fill in your reason here...............
How do you feel now ? What is the
Skeptic

Dissenter
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:25 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Postby Dissenter » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:45 am

Hi Ross

Well I found the website entirely by accident, so i didn't see any of the ads.

Interestingly, I still have an email I sent off to a girlfriend saying "Do you think this is some sort of front for a religious organisation?". But i found nothing to substantiate these suspicions at the time (obviously I didn't look hard enough!)

I was actually quite excited, as I have wanted to study philosophy for quite some time but never quite got around to it at uni. So I registered for the free introductory lecture and went along.

I guess my excitement just buoyed me along and I am embarrassed to say I was the first one out of the free introductory lecture to line up and hand over my money. Then I had a cup of tea and chatted to one of the staff, expressing positive sentiments about the existence of the 'school' and the network of them across the country run entirely (I was told) by volunteers.

So in summary, I was a little bored with my evenings and jumped at the idea of a lifestyle course that would enable me to meet some new people, and study something I had always been interested in.

Looking back, I should have been more cautious. When you can smell a rat, there is normally one around somewhere...

User avatar
bella
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:52 am

Postby bella » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:39 am

I was pregnant and hormonal. :)

I was actually pregnant, and living in Sydney. A family friend started attending, and my mother followed his lead. She mentioned the school a couple of times in her letters, and she sent a book from the school library (New Guide to Rational Living, I believe). I read it, and when I moved back to Bris to have my baby, I decided to check out the school - first port of call was attending the Christmas party as a family member, at the end of the year. I didn't actually see any adverts until after I started attending.

Three months later, I signed up. I should mention that my mother had had a nervous breakdown and was on antidepressants a few months prior to joining the school, so I was curious to see what it was that had contributed to her becoming someone I could relate to again. She was "herself" again, and it made me curious. She'd always been an inherently negative and suspicious person, and vehemently anti-religion, but she was starting to display some compassion and optimism on top of the usual qualities, so y'know - it piqued my interest.

I'd studied philosophy and psychology at university, and quite frankly, I enjoyed walking into the first session and finding it wasn't anything like "Epistemology 321" or "Ontology for Dumbasses". Part 2 dragged a little for me, but I thought I'd stick it out and see what happened. That pattern of great interest-waning interest-great interest continued for about 4 years, well after meditation initiation. I still have phases where people in the school piss me off no end, but I made the decision awhile ago that if the teachings were important enough to me, negative personal interactions were pretty much irrelevant. I'm talking about personality clashes and people caught up in their own importance here, not genuine cases of abuse as described elsewhere on this board.

In the end, the relationship is between me and the teaching espoused by the school - not between me and the various people also struggling (or not) to be decent human beings in the school.

ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

reasons for starting

Postby ross nolan » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:29 am

Thanks for your stories Dissenter and Bella (maybe you two could discuss your individual and quite different viewpoints via PM ? )

I have some heavy duty spyware on my computer and cannot trust being able to post anything,get emails etc so I am getting a professional IT 'pest exterminator' to clean it out and might be offline for a day or two .

I had meant to already post my own story but for this 'SNAFU' but now I will see how it goes...

Some background first that might help set the scene;-

From about the age of eight (I am now 52) my mother became a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses via the usual door to door method and even though she did her best not to let it affect the family too much ,at least overtly, you cannot help but pick up much of the 'flavour' of their beliefs and the discussion of 'the coming end of this order of things' ho doubt registered in my subconcious --
you just didn't feel like you would have a future on some level and things like not celebrating birthdays or Christmas (rules bent a bit but I knew the prohibitions well enough) no going out , no rock music or dancing etc , not supposed to salute the flag at school, sing the national anthem etc etc and a fairly constant stream of putting down the pope and other "Christendom"
churches -- always lots of literature lying around ,occasional bible stiudies with her church friends etc.

JWs have a pretty unforgiving and loveless faith -- there is great emphasis on how rotten the world is and how only the coming of Armageddon can do any good.

Anyway an idea of religious things is picked up by osmosis as it were -- with my brother subscribing to the "Worldwide Church of God" (Herbert W Armstrong this sort of thing was reinforced -- (we had no TV for the first few years in Mildura and it didn't arrive until about 1969 from memory
so we had only radio with several evangelists broadcasting )

Having been 'overexposed' to cultish religion in effect I became sceptical about the likelyhood of any of it being right but one did think about deeper things than just 'sport,beer and girls' and I have always had a deep interest in science as a means of understanding things and a parallel interest in the long term history of mankind including the major religions and philosophical thinking in general .

(download here )
Skeptic

ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

background etc

Postby ross nolan » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:06 pm

So ...many years later... I had gone to Germany at 19 to finish aeronautical engineering but after the mid east (Yom Kippur) war of mid 1973 I had to either go back to OZ or do something else (the economy slumped and 'guest workers' including students doing 'practicum' had to leave ) I got work in the USA working for a small firm designing and developing sailplanes -- the next wave of the energy crisis (early 1975) and local unemployment meant no work permit renewal so came home.

I had a glancing exposure to the seventh day adventists whilst in the US from my girlfriend's family and even had Amish come to town plus mennonites, revivalists etc -- all grist to the mill. The religious element in US life in the mid west (Ohio) is quite powerful as compared to Australia.

So one day (about five years ago) whilst daily commutting to work through Flinders st station I noticed the "school of philosophy" posters and liked the sound of some sort of study group to consider the deep questions of 'life the universe and everything' -- really different than the other ads for dog food or reflux medicine etc that don't promise anything quite so meaningful.

I didn't follow up until I had moved to the area where I live now and settled in (I am a bachelor I guess ) and caught the ads in the local rag and noticed they were quite close -- resolved to make a move and look into it (in the event I was flat out with a big contract vehicle building and left it so late that I did the first class at the central Melbourne "Royal society" building and transferred to the local branch after three weeks)-
that was about eighteen months ago.

Initial impressions were favourable except "who are these clean cut young men wearing dark glasses and just standing around like secret service agents ?" - the building itself was sumptuous with ornate carved wood panelling,gilt architraves, velvet curtains etc -- a real feeling of anticipation and like being back at school to some degree (looking around everyone seemed to be well dressed and 'normal' with a late thirties 'median' age -- the lecturer was confident and well presented and seemed to be really interested in the subject that,although vague, was definitely addressing all those 'important' questions that can get lost in the treadmill of daily life . All seemed quite encouraging even perhaps a little exciting -- did we have here some of club for intellectual that did not involve just 'activity' without any real thought ? How long had this been going and I hadn't known about it?

Whist alluding to the coming sessions to introduce the philosophical thoughts of Plato and more, the lecturer asked some probing questions of the class like why are we alive? have you ever thought about....? and the like and invited the class members to tell why they had been attracted to the' course' . Here a number of people became quite revealing about their personal lives and (looking back) it was obvious that people were being assessed for their intelligence, motivations and 'receptiveness' - it became slowly apparent that there were certain 'correct' responses to the questions and later to responses to the 'lesson' for the night......

(download here)
Skeptic

ses-surviver
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: London

Postby ses-surviver » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:00 pm

Well, when I join (in 1978), there wasn't The Web and I don't recall seeing an advert either. An Aunt who had been involved with the Theosophist Society knew of my interest in the Occult, Eastern Religions etc and suggested that I join.

I was brought up a Roman Catholic and I suppose as a reasonably 'strict' one. Religion was something that was important to me, yet as I entered my teenage years, I began to look for something deeper. Things started when I started practicisng Yoga (I must have seen it on television or something) and then having read various bookson the subject, I became interested in the more spiritual side of Yoga, that was referred to in books, but not really explained.

At the same time I began to read lots of Dennis Wheatley books - which included descriptions of various Occult practices and things such as the use of 'Astral Travel' ... oh and sex as well. I was never drawn to the 'darker' side of things and Wheatley himself warned reader from getting involved with this sort of thing.

I also remember a number of programs on TV which got me interested in the 'supernatural'. Uri Geller's appearances on TV definately had an impact, then there were programs on 'Pyschic' doctors, strange unexplained phenomena and past life regression - a particular show seemed to feature just people who had been Cathars in SW France at the time of the Crusade and this got me interested in Re-incarnation etc.

Of course trying to discuss these subjects at school in Religeous Education classes was a waste of time ... and the 'Brothers' who ran the school had no time for any religion other than Catholicism.

So encouraged by my Aunt I signed up for the SES when I left school for University and while the early terms had their ups and downs, I rarely missed a class/group night. I did flirt with leaving the school at one point and going to Scientology instead - but the people there were so wierd and some of the practices so strange, that I demanded my money back after 2 sessions.

After that it got more interesting as we were introduced to Meditation (though I never did get a satisfactory explaination for my initiation experience from Mr White) and then, after moving from Manchester to London, there was the residential at Stanhill Court. After that I felt more committed to the School than ever and gradually gave it more and more of my time at the expense of my family (by now 200 miles away and unable to interfere) and friends (most of whom had dispersed after University).

I guess it turned out to be more or less what I wanted.

NYC
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:17 pm

Postby NYC » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:46 pm

SES-survivor wrote:I never did get a satisfactory explaination for my initiation experience from Mr White

care to elaborate? what about your initiation were you wanting explained?

ses-surviver
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: London

Postby ses-surviver » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:18 pm

NYC wrote:
SES-survivor wrote:I never did get a satisfactory explaination for my initiation experience from Mr White

care to elaborate? what about your initiation were you wanting explained?


Well though I was told not to discuss the initiation, I personally found it a physically painful experience - like having something drilling down into my skull from the top of my head. I say 'drilling' because it was like drilling into a wall with an electric drill and it had the sensation of starting off with little resistence and then in some way getting harder and more painful as it continued.

It was as if someone was drilling into a wall with a drill-bit that was suitable for creating an initial hole. Eventually no matter how long you continue, you can't get any further into the masonry and the dril comes to a stop - then its time to change the drill bit and continue.

It genuinely felt as if the mantra was blasting a hole in the sanscara around my 'soul'. Mind you, if it was sanscara, I've got a hell of a lot more to shift. :)

It was definately physically painful and it made me lean forward - something which Mr White seemed alarmed about - and made me kneel up straight again. Of course when I went back to get 'checked' afterwards, I asked about my experience, but the question was deflected since all he seemed interested in was 'could I hear the mantra'. I could hear the mantra clearly then, of course as I was still 'floating on air' after the whole ceremony - but the fact that I didn't get a 'proper' explaination for what I experienced has always bugged me.

Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Postby Tom Grubb » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:37 pm

ses-surviver wrote:I also remember a number of programs on TV which got me interested in the 'supernatural'. Uri Geller's appearances on TV definately had an impact, then there were programs on 'Pyschic' doctors, strange unexplained phenomena and past life regression - a particular show seemed to feature just people who had been Cathars in SW France at the time of the Crusade and this got me interested in Re-incarnation etc.

This shows the sort of damage that can be done by the generally uncritical treatment of 'psychics' by the media. If only more airtime were devoted to showing so-called 'psychic' feats for what they actually are!

Tom

NYC
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:17 pm

Postby NYC » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:11 pm

Well though I was told not to discuss the initiation, I personally found it a physically painful experience - like having something drilling down into my skull from the top of my head...

It was definately physically painful and it made me lean forward - something which Mr White seemed alarmed about - and made me kneel up straight again.


you've lost me a bit here -- I've read accounts of the TM initiation, which SES/SoPP is supposed to closely track -- and I undestand the feeling you describe, the drill-bit image you use is very expressive -- but what was physically and mentally happening when you started to feel pain? Were you internally repeating the mantra? saying it outloud? Was the initiator repeating it with you, silently or audibly? Or just sitting with you but repeating his own mantra? What did he say to you before you started the repetition?

It genuinely felt as if the mantra was blasting a hole in the sanscara around my 'soul'. Mind you, if it was sanscara, I've got a hell of a lot more to shift. :)


did you experience pain later, when meditating on your own?

Dissenter
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:25 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Postby Dissenter » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:09 am

bella wrote:I should mention that my mother had had a nervous breakdown and was on antidepressants a few months prior to joining the school, so I was curious to see what it was that had contributed to her becoming someone I could relate to again. She was "herself" again, and it made me curious.


Interesting. So it actually helped her -- which is great.

See I've been so caught up in the 'these lying shonky con-artists have robbed me" side of things that I do often forget that some people have found the SOP to be 'helpful'. See how cynical I am? writing 'helpful' in inverted commas ;)

I do believe though, that these types of organisations attract people with a gap to fill in their lives. People with emotional problems, overt or not, or people who just want to reach out to something that makes them feel better - and are often so desperate their better judgement can often fail them.

There's a reason why the JWs used to visit the homes of people in my home town who had recently had a loved-one pass away. They were emotionally vulnerable -- and the JWs knew it, sneaky b*stards. But then who am I to say 'sneaky b*stards', if the people they approached genuinely found solace in joining? I mean at least they didn't turn to hard drugs and become junkies.

You could easily accuse me of being 'holier than thou', and you would probably be correct.

There's an article a lot of you have probably read already called 'The Pinstripe Guru', I"m not sure who wrote it, but the author makes a similar point:

Cults, we are told by those in the anti-cult movement, practise a form of subtle brainwashing. It is obviously far too subtle to have an effect on the dozens upon dozens who have already abandoned the course by this time. I too appear to be immune to it; a year of lessons delivered by Miss Crammond and her colleagues has left me unmoved.

The few who are left by this stage in the course, are simply those who want to believe. I witness nothing that could be called thought reform, or brainwashing. The yearning dedication of those who stay, turning up week after week in their quest for the big answer to life, is somehow ignored by those in the anti-cult movement who try to tell us that behind the fluty-voiced Miss Crammond lurks a malicious agent of mind-control.


see http://www.esatclear.ie/~dialogueireland/ses2.htm
[/i]

ses-surviver
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:11 pm
Location: London

Postby ses-surviver » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:34 am

NYC wrote:
Well though I was told not to discuss the initiation, I personally found it a physically painful experience - like having something drilling down into my skull from the top of my head...

It was definately physically painful and it made me lean forward - something which Mr White seemed alarmed about - and made me kneel up straight again.


you've lost me a bit here -- I've read accounts of the TM initiation, which SES/SoPP is supposed to closely track -- and I undestand the feeling you describe, the drill-bit image you use is very expressive -- but what was physically and mentally happening when you started to feel pain? Were you internally repeating the mantra? saying it outloud? Was the initiator repeating it with you, silently or audibly? Or just sitting with you but repeating his own mantra? What did he say to you before you started the repetition?

I think that this happened at the stage of the initiation where one is repeating the mantra out loud - with the Initiator. Its over 25 years ago now, so I cant recall the details all that well. The first part of the ceremony flew by and I remember being slightly disturbed by the chanting and Sanskrit (which I hadn't expected), but I soon found this quite calming. When the mantra was introduced it first sounded huge. I remember repeating the mantra out loud and then taking it inwards and continuing to repeat it, until the pain became too much.

I remember being told quite sternly to be upright once more and to be honest it was a relief when the initiation came to an end. It wasn't all painful but the pain has rather clouded my memory of the whole event.

NYC wrote:
It genuinely felt as if the mantra was blasting a hole in the sanscara around my 'soul'. Mind you, if it was sanscara, I've got a hell of a lot more to shift. :)


did you experience pain later, when meditating on your own?

I never experienced pain later on, when meditating. It was often difficult, but never painful. The pain I speak of was only ever experienced duirng the initiation ceremony.


Return to “General discussion of SES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 43 guests