SES for babies!!! Deeply depressing

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
sparks
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:17 am

SES for babies!!! Deeply depressing

Postby sparks » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:12 pm

SES North East (who go under the name "School of Philosophy") are running...

two 9-week practical parenting courses three times a year, beginning in January, May and September.

The first course, called 'The Formative Years,' is about children aged 0 to 10 years. The second course, called 'The Challenging Years,' is about children and young people aged 10 to 21 years.


Course content includes:

    The true essence of the child
    The 5 senses
    The organs of action - speech, use of hands, walking and eating
    Stillness
    Aspects of a child's nature
    Love and discipline
    Having a concept of a civilised being for the child
    Selfish desire

    Honour thy father and thy mother
    The 3 needs of a child : father, mother, teacher
    The 3 great influences on a child: family, school, society
    The future for the child based on truth and goodness


see http://www.philosophyinpractice.co.uk/practical-parenting.php

Anyone who has experienced an SES upbringing will recognise many of the above as aspects of the SES 'philosophy' which caused so much damage to children at St James under the Debenham / Caldwell / MacLaren regime. Having watched the Debenham interview on newsnight (see http://www.corpun.com/vidsc.htm), the inclusion of 'civilised child' and 'love and discipline' send a tingle down my spine.

Does anyone know where the funding for these 'parenting' courses is coming from?

.

User avatar
bella
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:52 am

Postby bella » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:36 am

What funding do you mean? The one here is run with a volunteer tutor and assistant/s, in the school building, same as the ordinary groups. I imagine the material is the same worldwide.

User avatar
a different guest
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
Location: Australia

Postby a different guest » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:45 am

and what are the qualifications of the "tutor" bella? Any academic qualifications required? If so, what sort?

and just back to the vexasious boobs question - do you know the current SES doctrine on breastfeeding?

and the 3 needs - if I was a single mum, with an ex who had p.o.'d, how do I supply a "father"? And who is the teacher? Do they mean school?

0-10 years is such a HUGE range - how can that be ecompassed in one course? Newborn, Baby, toddler, pre-schooler, junior school, then senior primary - such HUGE developmental gaps - yet all encompassed in one 9 week course????

Do the SES still teach to limit sleep in a child???

questions questions

User avatar
bella
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:52 am

Postby bella » Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:28 pm

ADG -

The material's based on the Shakaracharya's answers to questions about parenting, and this gets explained at the first session. I believe it was put together by Shane Mulhall, and that it's the same material at all the schools offering it. The tutors don't have to have academic qualifications to present it, but some of them probably do have them, obviously. The course here is being offered to SOP students now, with a view to running public courses afterwards. The school leader's wife (senior women's tutor) is presenting them at the moment.

Re boobs: Like I've said before, I've not been exposed to any doctrine on breastfeeding. When it has come up, it's been referred back to the parent as a matter of personal choice. I've got no idea what the UK SES is teaching on the subject, if anything.

The material deals with the "ideal" set-up: father, mother, kids. If you're a single mother, you do the best you can with what you have, and try your best to cover all the bases. Yeah, "teacher" means school.

It's not meant to give detailed advice about every stage of development. The 0-10 is basically split into 0-5 and 5-10, with basic principles about dealing with kids in those age ranges (in terms of their development in different areas). It's not supposed to be a quick fix, or specifically prescriptive or like a list of dos and don'ts. An example would be the idea that kids 0-5 shouldn't be subjected to any physical or emotional pressure, and that boundary-setting and all interactions need to happen through love and play only.

As far as I know, the only thing mentioned about kids' sleep is that they shouldn't be encouraged to lie around in bed after they've woken up.

Jerome
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:26 pm
Location: LONDON

Postby Jerome » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:43 pm

Oh no

another parent-child development programme? There is so much useful and in some cases brilliant information out there already for parents on parenting, why do we need another? Ok, so its been given the SES spin, but from the limited information that Sparks gave, its much the same as the others. Where I wholly disagree with the SES is when they start to get recruiting in the earliest years of childhood, when the child is defenceless and ignorant. I( don't know about anyone else, but why can't kids and their parents progress down a natural and organic way when developping their relationship? And why the hell do these 'challenging years' stretch to the 20s? Ridiculous...Whilst I'm at it, there is a fundamental flaw with the SES. I don't know who else has thought of this or can think of some others, but if they can then send me a private message. This flaw is that Indian culture and Western/european culture and teachings are completely different. Problems innevitably arise when you start going against the cultural grain, and mistakes are made such as the mis-treatment of people when the two are put together. Indians (sorry for the generalisation) have no clue how we tick, just like we have no clue what makes them tick. I'm sure the Shanka sharia and the mahaparata, however you spell them, are decent blokes, but their 'teaching', especially once its gone through the Maclaren filter, does not belong here.

I'm sorry if this sounds at all racist, not at all intending to be, but every once in a while I remember why things don't work out in the SES

peace out
Jerome Mowat

Alban
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:23 am
Location: London

Postby Alban » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:58 pm

I've got to admit, I have a problem with this.

Firstly, WTF does the Shakaracharya know about kids? Has he even got any of his own - even if he has, what makes him such an authority on them.

In my very limited experience (I only have two) all kids are wildly different, and what works for one does not work for another. Virtually all the experience a parent gets is from watching their children and then adapting their behaviour to suit the child's needs. There are always a number of people who are happy to give advice, but all-in-all, unless it's medical advice given by a suitably qualified person acting in their proffessional capacity, it is generally worth diddly-squit.

Secondly, evidently the SES feels it is qualified to hand out spiritual guidance, which is a subect of much skepticism in the first place, but now, they're handing out guidence on parental skills - which is about as far from a spiritual experience as one could get. Let's face it, they haven't got a particularly good record in this area have they!

Unfortunately I guess there will be a number of takers for the course as any first-time parent generally feels pretty unsure of themselves because of their self-perceived lack-of-knowledge (which is actually just a lack of experience). Add to this, sleep depravation, hormones flying left-right-and-centre, and the lack of any routine to fall back on, and you have a vunerable person who could be very easily led.

I think the best thing you could give most parents is not advice, but a cup of tea and the offer of looking after their kids for a day so they can get a well-deserved break.

Alban

james
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:56 pm

Apparently the SES,SOP thinks its the best thing since sliced bread and it has valuable informaton to give in every walk of life. I was on a group weekend just recently and we were talking about how lucky we were to be born into the western world and the tutor said that we were especially lucky to be part of the SES which would help to guide us to realisation! I nearly got up and throtled the tutor to death right there. F**K that, they are so full of themselves, its unbelievable.

However, once again I must say the course is volutary, nobody is forcing anybody to go, so can we really insult it just because we don't agree with it. Many people may go on the course and find it very valuable. Many may not.

The funding is coming from fees for the course, im not sure how much it is to go, but there is a price.
Im in a cult? You think? Don't worry the spaceships will be coming soon.

User avatar
Keir
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:04 am
Location: London

Postby Keir » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:23 am

My own take on it...

Ensure every subscriber to the course has a leaflet that details the links to this BB and for fairness a link to the official SES site.

When they have an informed decision, then let them choose if this is a wise investment of time and money.

Personally I think it is sick in the wake of their reticence to make any meaningfull apology to the kids that they let down before, to offer the same thing to yet another vulnerable group.

Goblinboy
Moderator
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:07 am

Postby Goblinboy » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:34 am

james wrote:Apparently the SES,SOP thinks its the best thing since sliced bread and it has valuable informaton to give in every walk of life. I was on a group weekend just recently and we were talking about how lucky we were to be born into the western world and the tutor said that we were especially lucky to be part of the SES which would help to guide us to realisation! I nearly got up and throtled the tutor to death right there. F**K that, they are so full of themselves, its unbelievable.


Thanks James. I guess that captures one thing I've experienced with SES/SOP senior people - they usually have an answer for everything (regardless of their own experience / education / etc in the matter).

james
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:33 pm

Hi Kier
There is a leaflet for the course and it lets people know that the course is run as part of the SES/SOP. It doesn?t however have a link to this site! I don't think it would be in their best interests to do so!

I just feel the need to scream at the SES again. Their main teaching which their entire "philosophy" is built around is that of "Adwita" or "we are all the same". Why was it then that when I was on a "Weekend" standing in the queue to get a cuppa an older man pushed in front of me. I confronted him and he in no uncertain terms told me he was "I" group, and as I was only "Youth" group he had full right to barge in front! All the same! Bulls**t. Those that have been in longer seem to think they are somehow superior, more realised, and all that cr*p.

Sorry, you?ve got me going now!
:bad-words:
Im in a cult? You think? Don't worry the spaceships will be coming soon.

User avatar
a different guest
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
Location: Australia

Postby a different guest » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:07 am

Bella - by "school" do you mean the local state school down the road? Or the SOP. If your kids can't go to an SES run school, do they have some sort of weekend SES "school" that they go to?

ETA (sorry got interupted mid-post)

Glad to hear they no longer dictate early weaning. However how long do SES mums BF these days? Are they now trying for WHO recomended? (min 2 yrs).

and what's so wrong with lying in bed? :D

User avatar
bella
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:52 am

Postby bella » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:18 am

Yeah, "school" means whatever school your kids go to, whether it's the local state school down the road, an SOP school, or Tae Kwon Do. Basically wherever you have the teacher-student relationship happening.

The mothers I've been in contact with in my time at the school have varied quite a bit in how long they breastfed, as you would expect in a sample of the general public. I went 2 years, some went 2-3, some stopped at 12 months, some stopped earlier. I don't know about "SES mums" as an entity, I just know about the women I've been in contact with at the school - and they've done pretty much what felt right for them and their children.

Heh, the lying in bed thing - SOP doesn't recommend that for anyone. "Get up when you wake up" is part of measure: that means when you wake up naturally, not when screaming cats wake you at 2am.

User avatar
a different guest
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
Location: Australia

Postby a different guest » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:58 am

Thanks for clarification Bella.

But as someone who has always been a "night person" I reckon I would find the "get up when you wake up" mantra a hardship! LOL

Jerome
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:26 pm
Location: LONDON

Postby Jerome » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:54 pm

hmm

That stuff on the 'we are all the same' sounds suspiciously communist. The charming tale you told also harkens back to George Orwell's novels, particularly Animal farm. 'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others'. Haha, sounds great on paper, but does it really work? Well this example gives us a clue...

Jerome

ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

SES credo on babies etc

Postby ross nolan » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:17 pm

This must be the thread I have least personal experience of but several questions have been put without answer and obvious misunderstandings of Vedic teachings on this -- incidentally "parenting" courses were offered at the introductory class ;- along with weekend 'courses' in everything from Calligraphy to 'secrets of the medieval masters' (artists) 'joyous singing' etc etc -- the more esoteric and mystical eastern subjects seemed to also be openly advertised to the inductees ( held at the Erasmus school)

Quote "WTF does the Shankahar... know about raising kids " etc -- surely you miss the point ; the "Shank" is merely the latest reincarnation of a long line of fathers AND mothers,( maybe a few monkeys ,etc) who collectively have a nearly infinite knowledge (and experience ) of EVERYTHING including the best ways to raise children.

I will post a few general outlines of Vedic (Hindu,Jain even some Buddhist)
beliefs about reincarnation and the passing on of prior knowledge from previous lives -- the 'anomaly' of child prodigies who can seemingly play complex music, do perfect artwork or complex maths without any prior training is often cited as 'evidence' for reincarnation .. the existence of 'idiot-savants' and autistic chidren who can do amazing mental feats or display highly developed skills without any training is certainly hard to account for .

Check out the Rudolf Steiner schools credo and connections to Hinduism to justify their practices if you want more problems (or to understand the SES hindu based child raising doctrine and put it in context )

Real answer is there are no children just reincarnated beings hosted in new (young) bodies -- they are old in mental terms --- remember Dr Who.
=one mind many bodies.......
Skeptic


Return to “General discussion of SES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests