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[dottydolittle]

It is also worth remembering at all times that YOU are paying THEM money to hear their particular brand of philosophy.

I love this brand of philosophy. Actually it refreshes me. It works for me.

This philosophy is something based on the fact that you have to practise it before you judge it. In other words you first try out what they say, if it works you carry on, if it doesn't you withdraw, and look for an alternative.

My friend who started Part 1, told me how one man loudly said 'are we here to sit like this forever, because i can do this at home' while they were sitting still at the begininng of the lesson.

What he didnt ask is why do they do it. I have felt that pausing in that way before you start something helps. You have to give it a fair chance of a trial before you can make any judgements on it. that was the first test, i wander if he can hack the rest.

[dottydolittle]

Hi, I recently found out about SES by accident due to an assignment set at uni to research a local garden of historic interest - (i study landscape architecture). I live close to Waterperry Gardens in Oxfordshire and so decided to base my project there. A few days ago i went to visit the gardens and was shown round the whole complex including inside the house. I was shocked to see a load of students 'floating' around and remember being struck by how placid they looked and noticed that the girls all seemed to wear floaty skirts (i thought they looked a bit like trendy hippies) There were black boards with hindi writing on, strange music being played on their musical instruments, half finished murials on the walls which i was told were hindu symbols- such as the tree of life, people congregating in rooms aparently in some sort of prayer/meditation. My other observation was that these people obviously had a lot of money- they have built and renevated buildings to a high standard for accomodation.
I was interested by what all this stood for and my research on the internet led me to this site. Could the house you mention be Waterperry, Emma? It has been owned by the School of Economic Science since 1971 although when i phoned the london office to find out about what the students were doing at waterperry they seemed reluctant to give me any information. Stranger and stranger...
Helen

What I find interesting is that for someone who doesnt know anything about the SES can instantly find the SES strange. I suppose that is one of the reasons why the SES isnt to willing to share their thoughts with people who arent even on the same 'wavelength' as them, who doesn't seen to have an open mind to accept things as they are.

How on earth can you be shocked by a couple of students who seem to wear floaty skirts (might I add floaty skirts are quite in fashion at the moment). They have a placcid look because they have an inner clamness in them, you probably caught them just after they had meditated!

The hindu writing is in sanskrit. Many know this ancient language. I think it is absolutley amazing!

One thing that you got wriong was the fact that they had lots of money. You are wrong there. Much of the work in keeping the place as it is, is by volunteer work, which is mostly by the SES members. Some volunteer to cook food, others volunteer to clean, to fix things etc etc etc...

The St James school in london is an example of volunteered work. When they moved into the new building, fathers and some of the SES members speant the whole day and night working and finishing of the classrooms so that it would be ready for the girls the next morning for their start in a new school. It shows the generous nature many live to help others.

Waterperry is a gorgeous place. And there are various other buildings also owned by the SES. They get their money by people who have simply dontate thier money and ofcourse the philosophy sessions they hold.

and anyway, wouldn't you get a bit distant if someone phoned up your house asking about the people who were living in it?

[Alban]

How on earth can you be shocked by a couple of students who seem to wear floaty skirts (might I add floaty skirts are quite in fashion at the moment). They have a placcid look because they have an inner clamness in them, you probably caught them just after they had meditated!

The idea that girls have to wear skirts all the time, is absolutely a petty narrow-minded way of thinking, trousers do not make you anyless feminine.

Ahem!

[dottydolittle]

yeeeeaaaaassss...... hmmmmmmmm..... OPz!

[Anita]

I applaud the catharsis that is manifesting on the Internet, which provides a forum for exorcism and expurgation that until now would have been conceptually unthinkable. I applaud those who have seized the opportunity to bare their souls and unburden their sufferings, thereby encouraging an entire generation to share also in their efforts to find closure and release.
I am Matthew Woolf?s mother and my purpose in contributing to this record is twofold. Firstly to acknowledge my personal responsibility for failing to protect him from what was going on, as graphically described in his lucid account at the opening of the other thread on St Vedast. Secondly, that I was so lacking in discrimination to have succumbed to the veneer of spiritual and moral justification that engulfed so many acolytes of the system that was promulgated as ?the teaching?.
There was a slow and painful realisation of the depth of the pervading ignorance unfortunately too late ? for the damage had been done. For this I seek his forgiveness, and I pray every day of my life that he will, through his inner reserve of strength, find healing.
I have seen today?s St. James School for Girls ? quite a different atmosphere prevails, run by enlightened heads who seem to have fully taken on the iniquities of the past. Much has been learned I assume from past mistakes. But until the victims of the early school find closure, and until their suffering is acknowledged, healing cannot take place, and the S.E.S cannot move on. Spiritual teachings, however great, and I believe the SES had access to the purest source, can be corrupted.
An ancient wisdom was presented through MacLaren?s particular vision. These, and there were many highly discerning people, drew from it what was appropriate for them, and I do not wish to decry the really great work the ?School? has done in many areas. There are many intelligent and discriminating people in the S.E.S truly devoted to a spiritual teaching of the highest order. But as adults we chose to go. It became a way of life to us, all our friends were there, and all our natural tendencies were seen as limitations to overcome. The children did not have this choice. We as parents put them there because we believed that the decadent values of the ?common life? would prevent them from attaining the spiritual development that was denied to us. MacLaren believed the more pliable natures of the young would take to the spiritual life more easily. He instructed the ?teachers? to use corporal punishment at the slightest sign of wilfulness. These men had carte blanche ? the blessing from on high. This was totally contra to all that the teaching said about the education of children. To Matthew, who happens to be an unusually sensitive and creative person, this was the worst possible school.
MacLaren saw himself as a Medici Prince bringing about a new Renaissance. Unfortunately as a man he had his own demons to contend with, and he had more than a touch of the Savonarola about him. A powerful teaching in the wrong hands can bring out the brute which lies very near the surface in some men. This, in the days of my son and his contemporaries, proved a particularly lethal cocktail when mixed with the worst aspects of the British public school system?s long out-moded educational techniques, which paid no heed to the causes behind a child?s misdemeanour, but simply to beat them into conformity. Excellence was attributed to those clever enough to work within the system. Surely each new generation has to make their own discoveries. The spiritual path which the SES attempts to understand emanates from the highest source, but as with The Torah and The Quoran, all great teachings, are gradually revealed through long and devoted study, and we have seen can easily be misinterpreted. For this reason, it should never be forced upon anyone.
It heartens me to hear that some of those who suffered under the system have gone on to lead creative lives despite it. Alex, my older son has put his talents as a writer and publisher to great purpose in producing books for schools and libraries throughout the world, offering the best in enlightened education and instilling a love of learning which he never experienced at St. Vedast. As for Matthew, life has been and still is a struggle with the O.C.D, which has proved a very difficult condition to overcome despite all the treatments he has undergone. His poetic nature comes through his words and music, which give expression to both his wisdom, compassion and grief, yet overall ultimate optimism. Are these not the ingredients of true spirituality?

Anita Woolf

[bella]

I don't wish to make light of Anita's previous post by being chatty, but there isn't really anywhere else to post an introduction. I've been a member of the School of Philosophy in Australia for just over six years, and am interested in keeping myself informed regarding people's negative experiences as well as the positive. I am considering a S.O.P. day school for my child, and wish to explore the subject as fully as possible. I understand many experiences described here are from another era and another country, but I find all input useful.

I hope you'll welcome me to this forum, as I have no intention of attempting to dissuade anyone from their views - only perhaps to share my own while reading yours.

Cheers.

[a different guest]

Bella - from reading the curriculum about the schools here, and also knowig someone who has sent their child there - personally I would not be sending my child to such a school.

Govt primary schools are very good in Australia and will give your child the widest experience of the diversity that is australia. Also they will not be given no choice in things just because of their sex (I note for instance the SES sports programs are gendered). Also who wants their 5 year old dressed up like some turn of the century british private school kid? Young kids should be dressed comfortble to encourage them to be physical at all times (not just in designated sports lessons with approp attire) - at govt schools both boys and girls wear easy care stuff like shorts, polos and tracky dacks.

[bella]

Guest, thanks for your response. How is the sports curriculum segregated? I haven't looked into that at all. My primary concern is that critical thinking may be disencouraged at a S.O.P. day school, but I am attracted to the idea of him being schooled in an environment that puts personal fulfilment and relationships on a par with academic achievement.

[a different guest]

Bella - the sports at the SES school are straight out of the 1950s. Cricket and rugby for the boys, netball and and softball for the girls. *now where is that eyerolling smilie? *

I have two kids in the state schooling system and I am very impressed with it.

You will find state schools these days very much have a whole of child approach. Academic kids are encouraged but for those whose talents lie elsewhere (art or music or sport, whatever) their achievements are also celebrated. "every kid is good at something" is the approach - and being acknowledged as "good at SOMETHING" often leads to being good at other things.

Also, given the diversity of kids within the state school system - appreciation and acceptance of difference, getting along with others etc. are all a natural part of the curriculum. I think there would be less of this (outside theory) in an sop school. Please excuse me for making a gross generalisation that may be offence (and not to mention incorrect) - but my experience of sop people here is they are generally anglo and middle class "aspirational voter" types.

Australians like to think of themselves as an egalitarian society. This ideal is worthy to uphold. I don't think you would necessarily get this in an sop school.

One final note is practicality - it is SO nice for kids to go to school in local area. They see their classmates at the park, and organising play afternoons is easy. The school IS the local community. Do you want to be part of that community - or have a separate one thru the sop?

[a different guest]

Bella - just a question about the sop if I may. I've read from euro sites about it that women go thru a special course in their 5th year - stuff to do about feminity, obeying men, and also instrustions about when to stop breastfeeding etc.

You said you have been sop for 6 years - so is that your experience with the sop in australia?

[Guest]

at govt schools both boys and girls wear easy care stuff like shorts, polos and tracky dacks.

I also used to argue, why do I have to wear skirts and dress so nicely to a place which is just meant to be a place for study. Who do we have to impress? Why cant we wear jeans or trousers, sit in lessons as we are at home....

Then I relaised, if I'm going to a place which is quite important for me, I want to dress nicely. By dressing nicely I feel quite good myself. I think its right to make school an important place and so turing up to school dressed propely.

Shorts and polos and tracksuit bottoms should be left as I call 'comfy clothes'..... relaxing clothes to relax in.... sports clothes to play sports.... casual for the casual places.... smart for important places.....

that is my opinion

[bella]

Guest - with regard to your question about a "special course" for women, my experience is not quite as you have heard. There is a "Ladies at Home" group which meets weekly, and has about a dozen members - the members have been attending the school for various periods of time, and the group is voluntary. In my experience, it's not actively pushed on any of the women at the school.

It is intended for women who are not in paid employment, but stay at home with children and housekeeping and whatnot. The focus is indeed on the "lawful" (Vedic Law) relationship between men and women, and appropriate discipline and education for children. Bible passages are read and analysed, as are Upanishads, Marcilio Ficino, Plato and sections of the Geeta, as they relate to women. Yes, ideas are presented about the wife "surrendering" to her husband, as well as ideas about women containing the universal power (shakti) in the relationship, and using it wisely.

The tutor for this group has never given any instructions about breastfeeding or pregnancy, and much of the disciplinary conversation re children ends up with : you have to make the best choice you can in the situation at hand, with the information available to you. It's actually fairly laid-back, IMO.

Hope this helps.

[Guest]

Bella - the sports at the SES school are straight out of the 1950s. Cricket and rugby for the boys, netball and and softball for the girls. *now where is that eyerolling smilie? *

I have two kids in the state schooling system and I am very impressed with it.

You will find state schools these days very much have a whole of child approach. Academic kids are encouraged but for those whose talents lie elsewhere (art or music or sport, whatever) their achievements are also celebrated. "every kid is good at something" is the approach - and being acknowledged as "good at SOMETHING" often leads to being good at other things.

Also, given the diversity of kids within the state school system - appreciation and acceptance of difference, getting along with others etc. are all a natural part of the curriculum. I think there would be less of this (outside theory) in an sop school. Please excuse me for making a gross generalisation that may be offence (and not to mention incorrect) - but my experience of sop people here is they are generally anglo and middle class "aspirational voter" types.

Australians like to think of themselves as an egalitarian society. This ideal is worthy to uphold. I don't think you would necessarily get this in an sop school.

One final note is practicality - it is SO nice for kids to go to school in local area. They see their classmates at the park, and organising play afternoons is easy. The school IS the local community. Do you want to be part of that community - or have a separate one thru the sop?

My school if about an hour away from me. I rather not think that the school is a local comunity, but a family. My school is a family, the head knows everyone's name, everyone knows everyone and so we are, by far a local comunity. I suppose it depends on the child as I have friends who left my school because they found it too suffocationg, however for me i found the protected small enviroment warm and home-like. My freinds all live more than and hour than me, but as we are older traveling to meet centrally is not much of a problem, mind you most of them have been together since they were four, over 12 years now, and they have grown together like sisters do.

We have lacrosse as our sports lessons, however we also do athletics, netball, badmington, used to do swimming, also rock climbing, canoeing, hiking, mountian biking, even did parachuting as an extra thing... If you request these sports, the teachers at my school with much enthuasim will organise it! all it needs is a matter of speaking up. We're tryign to get self defence classes too, something like Judo...

Each girl participates in everything. And that is what I like about it, just because you're not good at sports does not mean you can get awat with it. Every girls has to do school activities, ie. sports and singing. If every girl does everything... surely she must be good at one of those things, and like any school, whether govment run or not, the girl is encouranged in the places she is best at. THose who are good at singing sing for the whole school, those who are good at playing matches with for thw whole school, those who are good at writing, win writing competitions for the school, those who are good at maths, win the maths challenges for our school.

Like i said earlier, it depends which enviroment your child suits. Those who didnt like the attention or found it slightly intruding into their personal lives in my school left. those who liked it stayed.

[a different guest]

Then I relaised, if I'm going to a place which is quite important for me, I want to dress nicely. By dressing nicely I feel quite good myself. I think its right to make school an important place and so turing up to school dressed propely.

Shorts and polos and tracksuit bottoms should be left as I call 'comfy clothes'..... relaxing clothes to relax in.... sports clothes to play sports.... casual for the casual places.... smart for important places.....

that is my opinion

So how many sets of clothes do you need???

I am talking primary aged children here - kids as young as 4 - do they really need to be dressed in clothes that restrict their play? This is especially true for girls. Easy wearing clothes encourage girls to be active.

State school kids enjoy wearing their uniforms - by wearing their school uniforms they ARE dresssed "properly" for school. Just because in your opinion shorts and polos isn't "dressing nicely" just shows you as some sort of clothes snob.

I think the kids look great in their "comfy" clothes. They look like KIDS, not miniature adults!

I think a 5 year old in a shirt and tie look sridiculous - not to mention the extra work for the mother. Why have uniforms that require special laundering and ironing - give me something I can bung in the washer and dryer anyday.

[Guest]

Clothes snob? No such need for insulting thankyou.

". Just because in your opinion shorts and polos isn't "dressing nicely" just shows you as some sort of clothes snob."

In the case of adults, that is true! WHy on earth do the majority people go to work in a suits? Oh perhaps they are all truley "clothes snobs"!

When I was a child clothes in the least restricted my 'play'! For nothing could get in the way of my 'play'.