Thank you for warning me...

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
bluemoon
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:52 am

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby bluemoon » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:40 pm

deleted
Last edited by bluemoon on Thu May 24, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
SES London, 1990-2009, Female

Justice
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:13 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby Justice » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:27 am

I recently came across this interesting article on Social Mind Control:

"Office of Naval Intelligence – How to Resist Social Mind Control"

In 1979, the Office of Naval Research at Stanford University, CA, released a document describing how to resist social influence and social mind control.
The thesis of the essay, which was written by Susan Andersen and Philip Zimbardo of Stanford University, is that a sort of mind control exists in the most “mundane aspects of experience”. Because of this, it is possible to reduce “unwanted coercive control” by “increasing our vigilance and learning to utilize certain basic strategies of analysis”.

Mind control takes place, according to the paper, when:

“Information is systematically hidden, withheld or distorted it is impossible to make unbiased decisions. Under these circumstances, people may be subtly led to believe they are ‘freely’ choosing to act.”

See:
http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2012/02/office-of-naval-intelligence-how-to-resist-social-mind-control/

actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby actuallythere » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:15 am

@Justice

Thanks for posting this. This issue of mind control and/or underhand psychological manipulation is indeed central to grievances about SES.

It remains for me an open, unanswered question whether these tactics were at some stage consciously planned by the leadership, in the full knowledge that they would gain, retain and control recruits by using the techniques. Given it is commonly agreed that both the advertising and and political public relations industries use underhand psychological manipulation techniques, it long struck me as conspicuous that two top people in this psychologically manipulation organization were from high up in the British advertising and political PR worlds - Jeremy Sinclair and David Boddy, respectively. Coincidentally, they both were paid for their services by the British Conservative Party in the Thatcher era. It is a fair question to ask what they brought from their industries into the SES, and what they saw in SES that they could then use in their industries. The SES was the perfect laboratory for research into how group persuasion works (starting with persuading 100 people to neglect their families and instead drive across England to a creepy mansion where they crawl around like dogs on their hands and knees, cleaning things with a toothbrush, buying the delusion that it is going to make them very special people indeed).

This said, I am not a conspiracy theorist and am also open to the possibility that psychological manipulation tactics, which led to adult spiritual abuse as well as child abuse, happened through a sort of unplanned evolution of the group that a sociologist would have plenty to comment on. The point is that there were plenty of willing accomplices, tutors and the like, most of whom go through doubts about what they are doing but then repress this doubt, for some kind of egotistical gain. One cannot blame devious schemers at the top for the behaviour of the entire group; all willing members - even if they are victims themselves - share responsibility for the behaviour.

Perhaps there was a bit of both, unplanned and planned.

AT
"Always accept, always reject."
Last edited by actuallythere on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Justice
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:13 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby Justice » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:53 am

Hi actuallythere,

This said, I am not a conspiracy theorist and am also open to the possibility that psychological manipulation tactics, which led to adult spiritual abuse as well as child abuse, happened through a sort of unplanned evolution of the group


Make no mistake, there is nothing unplanned by 'groups' like the SES and the other more high profile 'groups'!

They know EXACTLY what they are doing from day one!

actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby actuallythere » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:42 am

@Justice

Like I say, I have always seen very strong grounds for suspecting this scheming to be behind the most destructive SES tendencies (if not in whole then at least in part), but where would one ever obtain conclusive, and universally persuasive evidence? The 'material', and anecdotes of instructions to tutors, isn't enough to go on for my liking. One would need public contrition from someone at the top, who was involved in the scheming - or else a leak of planning documents used by the leadership. Unfortunately, anything else is hypothetical, no matter how much it does ring true.

If we are going to object to SES's inherent mendacity, I believe we have to be empirical ourselves. In my view, one should maintain a discerning, independent mind - but one should not repeat the very behaviour that is now being scrutinized.

One day, I would not be surprised if someone at the top goes through a crisis of remorse and tells us all about the ongoing plan to create and control a group, with the objective of understanding how group coercion works, with a view to applying it to mass consumer and electorate behaviour. After all, SES was founded by a politician.

Or could it be, in fact, that Donald Lambie is going through this crisis, and instead of admitting how sinister the SES was, he is gently trying to reform it to make it last in diluted form, hence its current crisis (such as David Boddy quitting) ?

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bonsai
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am
Location: London

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby bonsai » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:59 am

actuallythere wrote:Or could it be, in fact, that Donald Lambie is going through this crisis, and instead of admitting how sinister the SES was, he is gently trying to reform it to make it last in diluted form, hence its current crisis (such as David Boddy quitting) ?


Hi AT,

What's the story with Boddy quitting? When did this happen and what is happening with St James?

Bonsai

actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby actuallythere » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:07 pm

If you word search "Boddy" on these forums you'll see more, and also if you ask around people who still know what is going on at SES, they'll tell you. As far as I am aware Boddy quit SES, or at the very least massively reduced his role there, and started his own small group named Silence on Sundays (SOS?) but remained head of St. James.

One friend told me a current SES teacher told him that Boddy is distrusted among the staff as he is a PR man rather than a professional teacher.

In any case, anyone who remains a member of SES shares responsibility for its destructiveness, whether they are involved with alleged planning or not.

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bonsai
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am
Location: London

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby bonsai » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:15 pm

I was aware of the posts about Silence on Sunday but entirely unaware of this had involved him quitting or reducing his involvement in the SES.

This is good for St James in the sense that it does put clearer distance between them and the SES. However it does come with huge warning signs about what sort of path and influences Boddy intends to impose on St James given his attempts to start his own philosophical groups.

And of course it does sound like the SES fragmenting.

I agree though, that none of this absolves Boddy, the SES or St James of the damage they have done and the parts they have played and their failure to rectify this.

Bonsai

actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby actuallythere » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:37 pm

I should specify that I have been told by just one existing member of SES that Boddy has quit SES. It is possible that this member was wrong, or meant 'effectively quit' (a massively reduced role) rather than 'formally quit' (whatever that would entail). This member was also under the impression that Boddy will remain at St James for the foreseeable future. Knowing how to persuade other people to run around for you is after all a transferable skill that headmasters, spiritual group leaders, political PR advisers and owners of event management companies all have in common.

woodgreen
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby woodgreen » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:06 pm

Hi eyes widen open,glad you have posted.
I was in the SES for a relatively short time as an adult, and they for sure got me, without me knowing. There are many posts and links about the initation on this forum, so browse when you are ready.
The question you posed " why do the SES do what they do.? In my mind it is answered by - they get control,of people, money, and then try - but fail - to use God to continue their cult - they try to control lives, children, love , and whatever we seek. Let us be honest, us "victims" of cults are apparentley highly intelligent which is the one thing they try to use, then abuse, in their pusuit of concsiousness control. That is why I left . They were trying to control me, and reduce me to their level. There was no love in the SES. Got love bombed early on, then the rest of the malarky , which included initiation, had no love in it.Then they speed up their control. They are about spiritual control at many levels, and at their highest and lowest that is all they do. The Eastern Gurus rule Lambie, Boddy and Cairncross et al but that is because they are weak and they let them. An insight into Boddy's soul methinks. Boddy wants to leave them but does not quite dare.Perhaps he wants to be a Christian again . Want to be again David ?Watch out for the Christian cults David. And the energy devil.

woodgreen
Ex-SES Member. (Member for 3 years in late nineties).

bluemoon
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:52 am

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby bluemoon » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:35 am

I have researched a bit and discovered that they are still including study of the Laws of Manu in the A Level Sanskrit exam at St James. Here is some info:

A Level Sanskrit at St James Schools, from 2010:

Link: http://www.sanskritexams.org.uk/A-Level-Syllabus.html
Last edited by bluemoon on Sun May 27, 2012 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
SES London, 1990-2009, Female

actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby actuallythere » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:44 am

@Bluemoon

Lambie may have said something to indicate SES isn't changing, but that does not mean SES isn't changing. Given some people think he's a liar, and many people think he's in a position of responsibility at an allegedly mendacious spiritual group, one should not take his words at face value, nor give him the credit for making something clear. Whatever he indicated may not be anywhere close to the truth.

Secondly, may I humbly request you now refrain from talking about your withheld notes until you post them, one could start to feel tormented.

Best wishes

AT
Last edited by actuallythere on Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bluemoon
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:52 am

Re: Thank you for warning me...

Postby bluemoon » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:37 am

Actuallythere, you can and I will. Best wishes, Bluemoon
SES London, 1990-2009, Female


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