'Secret' mantras

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

'Secret' mantras

Postby actuallythere » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:51 pm

Following the mention of 'secret' mantras on a thread I'm opening this one to discuss the topic.

In my opinion the initiation ceremony including the 'secret' is a threshold in the slow mind-control process. Being given a secret is an ego boost. It works as an SES filter that keeps in people who are turned on by being flattered and keeps out those who don't need flattery. Those who stay are on for a long run of emotional addiction to being alternately put down and boosted up (and ever more controlled) by the organization. The behaviour of pimps and drug pushers is analogous.

But here's an interesting thing - one SES member broke the rules and told me what their 'secret' mantra was. They said that everyone who they had shared their mantra with in their group had been given exactly the same 'secret' mantra.

So out of curiosity, would anyone here like to disclose their 'secret' mantra, for comparison? Is each group given the same mantra, or was that case just a coincidence?

Ella.M.C.
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby Ella.M.C. » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:48 am

Hello actuallythere,

It is interesting in what you say in regard to the initiation ceremony and mantra, with it's use for mind
control and ego boost.
Possibly these organisations do use those aspects to their advantage, but I would say only by co-incidence.
However I do not believe that mantras were given to students for these reasons.

A genuine mantra given by a genuine Holy Man is very traditional and a bona fide part of the Advaite Vedanta
Tradition.
However there are questions .. as to who is able or authorised to impart a mantra.

On the SOP mantra, I do not beleive it is very secret, but it is a recognised/genuine mantra ( three syllables)
(unless it has recently changed).

In SFSK, when I was iniatiated, along with so many others, over following years, it was somehow felt that we each had a different mantra.
This was not made clear to us, at the time of initiation, but anyone that queries this aspect, (before or after initiation) is definately told the truth that it is a mantra for the whole school.

ManOnTheStreet
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby ManOnTheStreet » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:29 am

As far as I know, in the SFSK everyone was given the same mantra: Hring Karaya Namaha

There was also a separate mantra for the children.

Traditionally, I don't think mantras were a particularly guarded secret in Hindu society. Organisations like the SES etc. make the mantras secret as part of the general process of dissimulation that goes on there. The other point is the one AT mentioned: the mantra situation is a bit like the one when you are a child and someone tells you a secret that you "mustn't tell anyone about". The very fact that the 'secret' is presented to you as something exclusive to you makes it special, even if the secret itself is something mundane.

You have to ask: Why make it a secret, especially since everyone has the same mantra? In any case, meditation is by its very nature a personal experience. This experience is hardly sullied by being open about what your mantra is. If anything, it might lead to further discussion between students regarding the nature of their meditation practice, in contrast to the stultified exchange that occurs when there is a tutor out the front of the group 'taking observations'. People are much more likely to be honest and open in an informal setting, and this is exactly what the School leaders seek to discourage. If they don't know what students are saying to each other, they can't control them.

The other thing was that we were never to ask what the mantra meant. Was this your experience as well AT?

Ella,

A genuine mantra given by a genuine Holy Man is very traditional and a bona fide part of the Advait-Vedanta Tradition.
However there are questions .. as to who is able or authorised to impart a mantra.


Yes I agree, but in the light of this statement AT's point stands - I don't believe the Mavro's were authorised to give us mantras anyway, and furthermore there are questions now as to the legitimacy of the mantra we were given in the first place. If the Mavro's weren't authorised to give us mantras, then they must have known this, and so you have to ask why they continued to initiate people anyway? You must remember (as I do) the constant refrain in School that went along the lines of "the person who initiates you is your guru". I think this was shamelessly exploited by the Mavro's to set themselves up as our "gurus" and derive all the benefits that flowed on from that.

His Holiness was our guru, but we were never allowed to go and meet him. It's astounding how little we actually knew about him during our time in the School. I distinctly remember Mr Mavro saying to someone that if they went to India to see His Holiness without the permission of Mr Mavro himself, they could consider themselves no longer welcome in the School. Are these really the actions of genuine people? I think not.

actuallythere
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby actuallythere » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:46 am

@Ella

"A genuine mantra given by a genuine Holy Man is very traditional and a bona fide part of the Advait-Vedanta Tradition."

That's precisely the point. SES tutors are certainly not 'Holy Men'. They're insecure suburban commuters with empty, materialistic lives. It is a total desecration of Advaita-Vendanta traditions for SES tutors to be handing out mantras.

Tutors who actually believe they have the status of 'Holy Man' because of their membership of this synthetic organization are both deceiving themselves and in need of an inflated ego - invariably for reasons of personal background.

I'm quite certain that students who are seduced by this also have very strong egocentric needs for heightened status, which enables them to go through the necessary self-deception.

Watch 'The Century of the Self' series that I've linked in another thread and you'll see the desires that SES tap into are exactly the same desires that advertisers and political PR men tap into.

Thus Kevin the boring, friendless, irritable accountant from Watford gets the chance to Become a Philosopher, to Walk on the Path to the Absolute, to Become a Fully Realised Being... SES can offer him the affirmation, guidance and discipline that his parents never gave him. SES's ego boost of becoming such a special person with a special secret and a special destiny and a special status is for him bigger than a Porsche. And the SES is even more likely than a Porsche to get him a woman.

Just don't let him anywhere near your kids.
Last edited by actuallythere on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

Ahamty2
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby Ahamty2 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:51 am

ManOn the Street:
Do you know the name of "His Holiness" who has given the SFSK this mantra??

Roughly translated "Hring Karya Namah" in english means: "One offers obeisances to the Holy Work (Effort)"!

ManOnTheStreet
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 am

Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby ManOnTheStreet » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:55 am

His name is Shri Swaroopananda Saraswati. He is the Shankaracharya of the North and West seats in India. Some information can be found here: http://jagadgurushankaracharya.org/ and here: http://www.paramahamsi.org/photo-galleries

Blissfully Sleeping
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:40 am

Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby Blissfully Sleeping » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:56 am

Just don't let him anywhere near your kids.


Too Right actually there! We took our children out of a SOP/SOPP primary school when we found out that 10 year olds are given "a secret mantra" to use when meditating in class. The children are told not to tell anyone what their word is...including parents!!! Where I come from no one has the right to warn a child they can't tell their parents something, that's how paedophines operate!! In an environment of misinformation and half truths, that one was the final straw!

Blissfully Sleeping
Last edited by Blissfully Sleeping on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

actuallythere
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby actuallythere » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:06 am

@Blissfully

Yes, the Khmer Rouge did this as well, when indoctrinating child soldiers.

Famous scene in The Killing Fields as far as I recall.

Ella.M.C.
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby Ella.M.C. » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:36 am

Yes I absolutely agree actuallythere,

As far as I am aware according to Tradition, it is only the genuine acknowledged Holy Man/Guru that
is authorised, and their most senior Dandi Swami disciples of which there are usually only around 2 in number.
I did not understand this fact until recently, as I believed all that I was told by our leaders .. either naively
or just plain stupidly!
So presuming this is entirely true, it makes you wonder if you would be just as well off deciding on a mantra of your choice from a book of mantras.
We are led to believe that ours is special and connected to the source ...

Not that it really bothers me ( I hope and think at this stage!) Meaning by this, the whole 'school experience' as I do believe in the early stages it is good and an encouragement for those seeking Truth.
(The subject of initiation rules is of concern).
The recycled material has stood the test of time, in inspiring young students.

For me it made alive things that I had long felt affinity with, but by oneself you are just book reading, and then when lifes' ups and downs come along you are distracted from the seeking.
And I say alive because of the like minded company of my peers.
School made it 'living' .. and given all the faults, Mr Mavro could be inspiring and it kept the fire inside alive.
I do not believe that he set out to do the wrong thing, I believe he was a very genuine Truth seeker who unfortunately lost the way, trying to control and not give any freedom to students.
In early school days I once mentioned a spiritual book to a senior person in school that I was reading, they immediately looked alarmed and told me I should ask Mrs Mavro if it was appropriate to read. That was a shock to hear to be told what you could and could not read. I did not of course ask and I know of no other examples of this happening.
But as has been mentioned here on these forums books that are used for material are not the ones that are available on the bookshelves.

I am just happy to be free and realise that Truth has no boundries.
To find Truth one does not need to follow a stale school that is based on a myriad of things, with two sets of rules, and full of secrecy and lack of true love and care.

Your descriptions of SES tutors .. while such a very colourful example, is sadly what it is, even though again current students I feel, would not be able to see it as such.. because of being so entrenched in the system.
Nor would any believe that they had such egocentric needs.
Some time ago I realised that School actually keeps you more asleep, than actually helping you to wake from
this dream.

And yes I have noted those links you posted on the other thread and intend to watch them ..many thanks AT
Last edited by Ella.M.C. on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ella.M.C.
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby Ella.M.C. » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:43 am

Ahamty2 wrote:ManOn the Street:
Do you know the name of "His Holiness" who has given the SFSK this mantra??

Roughly translated "Hring Karya Namah" in english means: "One offers obeisances to the Holy Work (Effort)"!


Thank you Ahamty2 for the translation/meaning.
We were told and all new students are told we are not to ask.
You just show trust and faith in what is given.
By meditating on it the answer will be seen.(hopefully one day)
I am led to believe recently that a Holy Man always makes sure you understand the meaning of your manta.

actuallythere
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby actuallythere » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:05 pm

@Ella

"I realised that School actually keeps you more asleep, than actually helping you to wake"

Now THAT is what I call the truth.

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bonsai
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby bonsai » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:23 pm

actuallythere wrote:"I realised that School actually keeps you more asleep, than actually helping you to wake"


And engender acceptance and dependence whilst trying to say that they encourage and require discrimination

Bonsai

actuallythere
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby actuallythere » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:00 am

@Ella

"I believed all that I was told by our leaders .. either naively or just plain stupidly!"

This sense of 'stupidity' is a consistent feeling among people who are about to leave or have left SES. In fact, sometimes it is so embarrassing for certain kinds of members that it actually stops them from quitting SES because they don't want to go through what they feel would be an admission of stupidity. So they continue the self-deception, remaining in the group knowing what they are doing is a pretence, but safe in the knowledge that they don't have to face certain realities as they perceive them. Their mind game is enabled by the natural ego response of pride .

So is very important to look at it from another perspective, to think about it another way, what I believe is an honest way and certainly not another mind game: you were not stupid, you were very strongly in need of something personally.

That is a big and important difference. SES tutors, etc, appealed to you (and exploited you, often without knowing it themselves) because they gave you something that you personally lacked. That is definitely not the same as being stupid.

It is really worth thinking long and hard about what it is you lacked that SES gave you. Some people have used 'exit counsellors' or have been lucky enough to find a half-decent mainstream therapist, but these really aren't essential, they aren't always good, and they are always expensive. You can do a lot on your own. There are plenty of books on the topic, but even these aren't essential.

It is usually very simple: it helps to put spirituality to one side for a little while and go deep and very candidly back into your past, your upbringing, your parents, your highs and lows, your rights of passage into the adult world, and look at the long line of your life and how it got you to where you are now - for a little while, you must live in the past. There will be your own explanations there for you about how SES got you, and how you got out. That will not be stupid of you, that will be very clever.

I hope this chimes with disillusioned members of SES who read this and know deep down that they are not leaving for fear of admitting to have been stupid. That 'stupidity' is another deception - it doesn't exist.

Tootsie
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby Tootsie » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:09 am

Sorry to say actuallythere but people are stupid staying in SES. I stayed for 14 years before I admitted to myself being stupid. Once you can admit this, you are free to leave. Our Ego's brought us to school and also allowed us to leave.

actuallythere
Posts: 180
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Re: 'Secret' mantras

Postby actuallythere » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:24 am

@Tootsie

I'm reluctant to use the word 'stupid' because it is way to vague and probably imprecise. It is also an easy word to displace a whole range of pretty scary and complex reasons why a person might stay in SES so long.

I assume you don't have an unusually low IQ, you don't travel by car without a seatbelt, and you don't buy the first product an advertiser tells you to buy. I assume you've always been reasonably clever.

You indicate that what you call 'stupidity' was caused by your ego - so are you saying this 14 years of stupidity was also 14 years of indulging your ego? If so, what was it was that caused you to need it?
Last edited by actuallythere on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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