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Donald Lambie

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:02 pm
by woodgreen
Is it time to look at Donald Lambie?

And ask why he pretends not to be the leader of the SES? Does he follow McLaren's stuff i.e the wrong attitude to life/people/ his cult. Lambie seems to be a shadowy person who is afraid to even be the leader of his cult. Hides behind it, and unfortunately for him relied on his money to protect him from being brought to account. Lambie must think he is buying his way to God. (NB Lambie , God does not want your money).
If you Google Lambie, the only result is he is the leader of he SES. (is that all he does? probably - he is what he is!!)
Any skeletons in his cupboard ?

as ever, woodgreen.

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:12 pm
by woodgreen
To add to my post - does DL do anything that contributes to the economy in any way? Does he pay NI, or Tax in this country as head of the SES? Is he classed as a working person. Or is he kept by the Charity called the SES, and the taxpayers. SES is a non-contributor to the tax system, so as a full-time leader does he not pay tax as such?. Or is he paid by the SES. And is that declared and taxable? Benefits in kind I recall.

According to the SES stuff no tutors are paid - so as " Senior Tutor" in the SES ( another Con) is it a way of him not being employed and paying tax . Is he using up his own personal wealth to help run the SES whilst getting a bit of a free ride? A far as I can tell he is not a practising lawyer and does not earn a living as such.

All quite interesting to me. Living off the SES (and its members and at another level), plus the Charity Commission, and the taxpayers.
Nice work if you can get it Lambie
Not much spiritual development going on there then.

HMRC might want to look more closely at all of this. And talk to the Charity Commission in the process.


Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:09 pm
by landgirl
I don't know whether to write anything here. I feel strange just seeing his name at the top of the page.

I had a very hurtful 1-to-1 experience with DL in September 2010 when I decided to leave the school, and explained my reasons for leaving*. I'm still processing the aftermath of that meeting, and it has impacted my life, in both liberating and painful ways. In December 2011, I came on this forum and wrote a full account of what I experienced, but then for some reason as I pressed 'Submit', my laptop reset Safari or my internet broke, and I lost everything. It was the first time I'd expressed what happened, and took me a long time to write.

When it got deleted I thought maybe that it was the best thing for nobody to read it, because it was critical and written in a time of anger/hurt. I don't know whether this is just me in default/stock SES stock answer mode - e.g. don't indulge in criticism.

Now I find it hard to imagine retyping it all. I've been writing/drawing to express my feelings ever since, and sometimes get breakthroughs in my world-view + outlook, and feel strong + free and unique. But sometimes I get totally paralysed emotionally, and feel like I don't trust myself. I feel like I'm on some kind of CCTV and want to disappear. I wish I could afford to speak to an impartial professional, as I've struggled with mild self-harm for years too, but I don't work full-time, so I can't save enough money. I did see Hope Valley Counselling for one session, which was insightful, but not enough time to get to the bottom of things.

My experience in this final meeting with DL was a stark contrast to how I'd been spoken to my entire life in SES. I felt judged, blackmailed, sent away almost with a curse/negativity hanging over me. I find it hard to accept that I spent 25 years [from birth] in the School, unquestioning, giving everything, unconditionally, complying, absorbing, serving, practicing, taking tutors their tea at 5.30 in the morning, ironing their underwear [we used to put out completely non-matching clothes for them to wear at Tea Bath Change, and see if they'd come down in them!]. I immediately told my parents about what happened, but my mum [who is in SES] said he was probably speaking from a point of fear, and it must be hard for him when promising young people leave so suddenly. She then left SES briefly due to illness [brought on partly psychologically from giving so much of her life/time to the School] but then rejoined. I was disappointed when she rejoined. If I had a daughter I could never be involved in an organisation that had said anything like that to her.

SO MANY people I know are involved with the school, sometimes I just don't know which way to turn to move on. I've been helped so often and so generously throughout my life with subsidised/free rent, subsidised trips, and I struggle to reconcile this huge feeling of anger towards the stifling institution of SES with all the wonderful well-meaning people that have been in my life, who honestly I don't believe are bad people.

The journey continues.

*My reasons for leaving were:
1. seeing friends careers + projects [e.g. lucca leadership] being associated with ancient St James/SES/issues/rumours; I didn't want to take the old history/baggage of an institution into my newly forming career.
2. I had been studying ecopsychology, and had come to appreciate transparency + flatter organisational structures, and did not agree with the hierarchy and gender roles still present in SES.
3. I was questioning my sexuality and didn't feel SES was a safe non-judgemental place to explore this part of my life.

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:27 pm
by ET
Hallo landgirl, welcome to the forum, and congratulations for posting this. It obviously took a lot of courage to do it.

I really feel for you when you outline how you are suffering so much psychologically. This is something that every SES survivor who posts on this forum will identify with, I'm sure. You say you would like to speak to a professional - have you had any therapy through the NHS yet? You are entitled to six free sessions, but any decent therapist will be able to tell from those sessions that you need more help, and they will not leave you to pay for your own treatment if that is the case. I had my six sessions some years ago now, but continued in therapy with the NHS therapist for almost three years, without having to pay her a penny. All you need to do is go to your GP and tell him/her you were involved with a cult and I'm sure they will refer you straight away - mine certainly did!

Please do continue to post on here and get support - above all, that is what this forum is here for. You are not alone.

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:26 am
by actuallythere
@ landgirl

That lost work might be a blessing in disguise. I totally agree that it is the most infuriating thing in the world to lose a large piece of work because of technology. But you've also said that you wrote it in the middle of everything - and that in my opinion is a thought that will take you forward. A famous old hippie once advocated that powerful emotions be recollected in tranquillity. You'll have a different perspective now so I suggest you write everything down (in a Word file! ) that you feel now and how it contrasts with what you wrote before and then copy and paste it here when you feel like it. This process will give you much of what paid therapy gives, and it will be free. You'll also find the rest of us here wanting to read what you write, and sharing with you similar experiences. Go for it.

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:53 pm
by woodgreen
Thanks for posting Landgirl.

I think your mum and dad are relieved you have left, because they, deep down, love you more than they love the SES or DL.

They may struggle to leave but they are not giving up on love for you, whatever Lambie may say.


Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:49 pm
by bonsai
Welcome Landgirl,

And well done for having the courage to post this time, and also the last time when it all got lost. It does take a huge amount of courage to leave such an organisation and to stand up a tell one's story. What you wrote last time is not entirely lost because you got to express yourself and you know what was written even if noone else does.

The one thing I would say is that it is very much the case that the Journey Continues. Time, in this case - as much as it is a cliché, is a healer. You now get to look at your past present and future from a different perspective and it will take time to adjust and make sense of it all.

In looking for support from here on, do choose carefully who you talk to. There is often a tendency with talking therapies (professional or otherwise) to talk to anyone, but you have to be mindful and ready for the responses you get. Strong judgements, prejudices etc set you back in just the same way as the way Lambie talked to you hurt. It is often the case that people who go and get counselling and therapy have a few sessions with one so called professional and then dismiss the therapy as it doesn't work for them. And often this can be because of a simple personality clash between therapist and patient.

Listen to people who've had similar experiences but remember they haven't had yours and they are not you. The last thing you need now coming out of an organisation like the SES is someone telling you how the world looks and how you should think and feel about it. Your experience is your own and your recovery path is your own also. Hopefully the people around you who genuinely care for you will support you whatever.

Most of all just be prepared for new revelations, new perspectives and having to make sense of things in different ways

Do write here more, but only if it helps. Remember also that you can do this on the public forum or privately with those who you feel will help you.

Wishing you the best

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:58 am
by Middle Way
With my professional psychologist "hat" on I concur 100% with everything Bonsai said. The counselling/helping professions have far too many people eager to offer judgements and advice, without doing all the listening to try to understand what is actually going on. If people ever do seek to talk to a professional, leave as soon as you get the feeling you are not being listened to. Your gut instinct will be spot on.


Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:34 am
by actuallythere

Yes, apparently therapists are meant to keep a little distance and help people help themselves.

Can believe there aren't enough therapists around who resist the temptation to give advice and take on a leadership role that builds dependency.

This is surely a particularly delicate issue when therapists have clients who have gone to spiritual groups for help and leadership (and found control and abuse instead) and then quit and gone to a therapist looking for even more help and leadership. It would take a very mature therapist not to get a buzz from this kind of flattery.

Without a therapist being familiar with spiritual groups there is indeed a risk of mistakes being made.

So my penny's worth: use as wide a variety of sources of recovery as possible - speak to as many different therapists as you can afford to, speak to other people who have left (there are now more people who have left SES than are in it), read everything you can (there are a LOT of books out there about departing from spiritual groups) and use internet forums like this, which are free and anonymous, to be as candid as possible.

On the specific subject of e.g. homosexuality and SES, it might be an idea to send private messages to people here who have stated they are gay and were rejected by SES because of it. Sharing similar experiences can be strengthening.

As a personal aside I've always found it to be yet another appalling item on the long list of SES hypocrisies that it rejects homosexuals even while there is a common academic belief that Plato, Shakespeare and Leonardo were all gay.

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:57 pm
by woodgreen
Thanks for the above postings everyone, and thanks again Landgirl. Your post helped me draw some important conclusions about DL and leadership of the SES. And these were informed by the postings on the SFSK thread - thanks MOTS/MW/Toots/ and especially Getting There.

The leaders of SES , DL now in prime position, have operated as though they were in a “private” world, and for a long time managed to operate outside even the basic laws ( legal not spiritual as the latter have not yet been fully integrated into legal remedies) of the countries they existed in. In recent years the SES tidied up its act in terms of adhering to educational/health and safety laws and standards etc. ( because they had to) and seemed to operate within the legal framework of the activities and countries that they were registered within. Unfortunately they continued to abuse the very core of people’s humanity. Specifically, the one that is hard to prove without real evidence - verbal abuse continued. And continues still, as Landgirl and others have testified. Behind closed doors they seem to think they can do what they want and when they are challenged they verbally threaten people with whatever they think might frighten them. Verbal abuse can affect people at levels that are still as yet unknown and unchallenged.

Lambie’s personal verbal attacks on people would never be accepted in any bona-fide organization in this day and age. Morally, ethically, lawfully, he would be transgressing and could/would be held to account.( Employment law, discrimmination laws etc.). And when people do transgress they held accountable in some way - that can be many things nowadays: an investigation, a reprimand, a removal from office, a fine, a loss of support, a condemnation etc. Whatever is deemed appropriate in the circumstances.

As head of the SES and it’s satellites, Lambie is in receipt of public subsidy through the Charity Commission. And all the people who sign those documents on behalf of the SES, or follow his methods for the SES, also benefit from that public subsidy. They can therefore be held to account because Public Money is at stake. And the public interest (i.e. the taxpayer ) demands high standards in spending their money. Especially these days. Verbal abuse is not on the tick-list for getting public money.

So, if Lambie threatens libel action, or anything else, the clear and immediate response is that he is cannot get past first base. Lawyer or not, Donald Lambie has no personal life to protect through the courts. His only role in life is as head of the SES which is in receipt of public subsidy. So his interest in this Forum and his threats to people who exert their right to leave his organization and speak about it publicly, is a matter for the public interest. Therefore publishing information about him and the SES which is in the public interest is not libelous. In fact quite the opposite - it is informing the public interest because public money goes into the SES. Unfortunately, as we know, the Charity Commissions has yet to get a grip on all of this, but at least I am now pretty clear about how Lambie is not the gentle new leader of the SES and will stoop to verbal attacks when he is on the back foot.. If he was lord of his own financial fifedom he might be able to get away with it - super injunctions and all that - but unfortunately for him he is not. Receiving public money carries responsibility and scrutiny about how they conduct themselves. The Forum in part does what the authorities cannot be bothered to do, or have not got the resources or wherewithall to do it.

Conclusion: If DL and others who act as though they are outside of the laws think that their actions are protected by money and secrecy, they need to think again, because their money is supported by the public purse and they are accountable for that, despite the Charity Commissions lethargy in tackling these issues. So IMO post anything that helps shed light on DL and the SES etc., for it is in the public interest. We’ll try to be polite in doing so I’m sure, despite the emotiveness of the issues raised here.

Whew, thanks everyone, I might sleep better tonight.

From “Won’t see you in court Mr.Lambie“.
(Aka )

PS - without debating the finer points of the female hierarchy at the top of the SES, I think the above goes for them too - as the posts about Mrs Mavro have elucidated. (Just in case Mr. L might think Mrs. L could do the job for him! Whether or not she may have appeared as a lovely woman on the surface!).

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:38 pm
by woodgreen
The debate about what is lacking in the SES has been clearly identified in recent postings across many threads. The one thing they tried to sell ( but had not enough to sell -was love). Some temporary love bombing may have happened , then it expired.
We survive very well without the SES.
Maybe the seniors in the school are afraid of love, life, and money, outside the school. They are certainly afraid of something. Of Lambie? Of taking him on for abusing people? As he verbally abuses people who decide to leave the school?
Or because they and Lambie are afraid of loving us, the ones who dare leave,post ,and speak out.

We can debate the finer points of the many philosophy's that the School hides behind, but we cannot shy away from the leaders abusiveness towards people who choose to leave.

best regards

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:54 am
by Middle Way
woodgreen wrote:The one thing they tried to sell ( but had not enough to sell -was love). Some temporary love bombing may have happened , then it expired.
You said that extremely well woodgreen. They still think they are selling love and have no idea that whatever they're selling is not that, even if the students and tutors think it is.

The Part 1 SFSK course certainly includes quite a few quotes about love, such as: "Love watches, and sleeping slumbers not; when weary is not tired; when straitened is not constrained; when frightened is not disturbed but like a lovely flame and a torch all on fire it mounts upwards and securely passes through all opposition. Whosoever loveth, knoweth the sound of this voice" (from Imitation of Christ). And, "love is to the soul as sunshine is to the flower".

It's apparent why some people are very keen to go on to Part 2, with the full expectation that more of this sort of material will be discussed. But ever so slowly one comes to forget that this "love" material is never revisited. Until one wakes up with a start, that is.


Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:32 pm
by woodgreen

You are quite right, and I connected to other quotes which I won't quote again in case they disressonnate i.e. the school pinched them.
But the school does not own any of the quotations it quotes.

And plenty of new quotes and dreams out there.

I had read many before I joined them.

xx woodgreen.

Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:47 pm
by woodgreen
My Dad, who knows little about the SES, and when I tell him does not want to engage too much, would have one message to say to Lambie. FO. And he swears little.
He wanted me to say this, before he dies. He does not believe in Lambie's cult and his reincarnation according to the SES.Like me he believes in love - he may not know what God has in store for him but he does not accept the SES as a way of life and would, if he could, put the SES where it belongs. On the scrapheap. After all, he brought me and my sis up and worked hard all his life for us. He is a bit afraid of dying these days - do we pray, meditate, for the people we love, who may be passing on ? My dad can be quite hard by the way, not sure what he fully believes in, (except me, my sis, and his family,) but I know it is not the SES. And would put Lambie in his place if he ever met him.
Called love I think.

Not feeling the love from lambie.!!


Re: Donald Lambie

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:59 pm
by woodgreen
Donald Lambie summed up his and the School's attitude to women and men in verbally abusing Landgirl because she wanted to do what any young person wants to do. i.e. move on and find a career/ her working life.
And move on from Mum and Dad for a while. It is quite a natural thing to do. Young people in the real world do.

The SES does not bring young people up to leave. SES believe they control parents too, even in this day and age. And threaten them in some way. Then their children. Who would want to return to the SES once they have left? And who threaten their parents. No- one for sure, despite the dificulties in leaving.

Who would stay in an organisation that through Donald Lambie is still pursuing McLaren's School of control? No-one in their right minds - their souls must be in trouble. Anti- progress , anti women, anti - love. Maybe money after all - they might hang on in there for it - free labour etc. Shame onn them. Another reason I left, I detected their use of people/labour/love. The latter was maybe was not the crucial thing - despite me being a softie. The middle one - do not put labour on labour SES. Charity status does not extend that far. Nor do my taxes and my charity.

regards woodgreen