Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Discussion of the SES, particularly in the UK.
Dr.Alan
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Dr.Alan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:23 am

SEVENTH MISTAKE ---- CHILDREN ---- IS SES TRYING TO TRAIN SHANKARACHARYAS ???
PART ONE - ESTABLISHING THE BEST CONDITIONS FOR TEACHING

Shankaracharyas are required to be life long celibates. Hence, there is no such thing as an hereditary right to the position of Shankaracharya, i.e. no one has a Shankaracharya as a father. This situation does not only apply to Shankaracharyas, of course. Many other monastic orders have the same situation. This has been the case in India for an unknown number of millennia. It is a position which few societies around the world have had to deal with over such a prolonged period of time. i.e. "We need spiritually competent candidates for such positions as Shankaracharya; but monks don't have families, so how can we achieve this in the best way?"

The way the Indian culture has dealt with this predicament, is as excellent as the way it has preserved the philosophy of Advaita Vedanta . In ancient history a class system was developed. This is not to be confused with the modern caste system. The caste system is a corrupt social system of order based on the rich people securing advantages for themselves over the poor. Very much like the aristocratic system of Europe, where some families (lords and ladies)have been allowed to own all the land and the rest of us have to rent it or buy it from them. The modern Indian caste system is deplored by those Indians who are of a spiritual inclination and by many modern Indian academics. Here is a quote from Swami Chidbhavananda.

"An ideal society is that in which the citizens are given training in the duties of all the four classes and they discharge their duties to the best of their ability.
"The worldly man's classification of himself into the four castes based on birth and parentage is merely a (corrupt) convention hardly ever tallying with his attainments. But the Vedanta philosophical position is that among four brothers all the four classes may be evident. The real classification is based on the degree of ethical and spiritual perfection.
"The ancient system of class recognition is the last word on an ideal social order. In the past India has evolved this system to its perfection. Every time India was faithful to this philosophical basis of her social order, she emerged as a heaven on earth. But every time she deviated from this benign principle, she met with a deplorable set back. Her latest fall from grace is due to casteism ,with its privileges masquerading as the ancient class system."

The ancient class system is simply a recognition of the natural differences, in not only the inherent talents and skills which people have, but also of the difference in the choices which they make. How this impacts on the Shankaracharyas is quite simple. Families who are of what is called the ancient Brahmin class, are families who are dedicated to preserving the ancient scriptures and the way of Vedanta. And they have done it well for thousands of years. If their children show the right qualities in this respect, then they are trained into the tradition of the preservation of the philosophy and the scriptures. This is not implemented for any child until they reach the age of 8 years. His Divinty Shri Guru Deva (Shantanand's teacher) was from such a family.

The benefit of imbibing important scriptural tenets at an early age is that they become understood deeper, spontaneously and naturally when the person is older. I can verify this with a simple example. I began to learn the Sufi ney (reed flute) at age 32. A few years later my daughter began to learn from me around age 7. It does not matter how much I practice the ney, I can never reach the depth and beauty which I hear when my daughter plays (now she is 41). Her playing brings me to tears very often, yet we all know that she does not think that she is doing anything special. That is how natural it can become.

The importance of this aspect from the point of view of the Shankaracharya tradition is that of avoiding deviation. When a person is appointed to the seat of a Shankaracharya it is better for the purpose of upholding the tradition that there will be no deviation from the traditional teaching and the tenets of Advaita Vedanta once the appointment has been confirmed. All embodied souls are subject to engagement with the nature of the society in which they live, even if they are a Divine Incarnation. This means they are always exposed to the pressure of some form of conformity from the people and with the prevailing conditions of the time and place. An excellent example will follow in PART TWO. (you may need your New Testament for the next part, if you have one)
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

Dr.Alan
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Dr.Alan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:39 pm

SEVENTH MISTAKE ---- CHILDREN ---- IS SES TRYING TO TRAIN SHANKARACHARYAS ???
PART TWO - AVOIDING DEVIATION FROM TRADITION

(Much of this text is also for any current SES readers of this forum to digest and act on it.)

Example of Risk of Deviation (It is most likely that your local priest or vicar will have a different interpretation of the following verses.)

See New Testament. John Chpt. 11. (King James version) -- Lazareth died after Jesus went away, in verses 32 & 37 pressure was put on Jesus to perform one of His miracles (i.e. He was almost blamed for the death.). To use their Siddhi powers (mystical powers) which such men have, is generally against the rules, unless it is connected with spiritual education of the people around them. Jesus knew this of course, but pressure was put on Him. If you can understand His predicament, you will also understand why He "groaned in the spirit" (vv. 33 &38) and why He "wept" (v. 35). (i.e. such men of the type that Jesus was, do not suffer from attachments, so there are other reasons for His sorrow.) Also you will understand that He asked for forgiveness for the misuse of His powers when under the pressure from the people He loved. (vv. 41 & 42 "---I said it" -- does not say what He said - but we can guess it was a special mantra.)

So even a perfect soul, as Jesus was, can become subject to deviation from the rules which such men live by, due to external pressure. Read again that part of the New Testament up to verse 46 and see how honestly and how well the incident has been recorded for posterity to learn a lesson from. But do we learn it ???

Shankaracharyas are only appointed if they come from a Brahmin family upbringing. This is not for the purpose of excluding others from such a position. It is only for one purpose. That they can avoid the kind of incident mentioned above from the N.T. or any other kind of deviation which may come. A Shankaracharya who has the tenets of the Advaita Vedanta tradition, as part of His own deep nature imbibed from childhood, will find it almost impossible to deviate. This upbringing is guaranteed if he is born into a family which keeps to the ancient Brahmin class method.

This is how we can understand what happened to the Maharishi. He started off mostly OK, following what His Divinity Shri Guru Deva had indicated for him to do. But under pressure from people in America he got involved in the money side of it and the big organisation side. This deviation was due to the fact that he was not of a Brahmin type upbringing from childhood. Hence, the risk of deviation was greater. He was only human after all. This is not for criticism but only for understanding. A person who reaches Self-Realisation must be constantly vigilant.

We are 10 lunar months in our mothers womb. Then we are 100 lunar months in the second stage until we reach the next important third stage of our life. We have then 1,000 left (or more if your lucky) to get liberation in life for the soul. It may vary from child to child, but usually somewhere between the ages of 7 and 9 a profound change comes about in the human psyche (beginning of third stage of life). This is basically gaining the first feel of being psychologically an independent being. For example, there are very few recorded instances of children running away from home under the age of 9. This is an indication that children do not even consider acting independently of the family in which they live until around that age. So the 10, 100 and 1,000 figures above indicate times when a kind of liberation comes for the body, mind and soul respectively.

Therefore it is recognised in India that there is no purpose in engaging the mind of a child in matters of a spiritual nature until they are psychologically able to evaluate those things as an independent thinker. This shows that the ancient Indian system is based on the natural laws (or numbers) related to human life. Children may remain physically dependent on their parents, but from 8 upwards they are psychologically fully independent beings. Not fully mature, but fully independent, there is a difference between the two aspects.

To force children to take part in spiritual subjects at an early age, risks their rejection of these things later in life; due to getting the underlying feeling that "I did not choose these things for myself." Surely to any intelligent person this would be a counter-productive strategy to implement. My daughter wanted me to teach her the Sufi ney (reed flute), it was her choice. She has always said since then that it is the one thing which will be with her all her life, because she loves it so much. If I had been the type of person to force her to learn it, there would always be the risk she would reject it later. Imagine what a loss that would have been to her. So even if a child shows they have an inclination for any one thing, it is risky for parents or teachers to force them to learn. Let them come to things in their own time.

SES have gone against the above principles regarding teaching children, in at least two respects. (1) They have put children into a position of an obligation to engage in spiritual subjects and behaviour, and at too young an age. Children should never be made to feel obligated in this way (2) They have not considered whether those children, to whom they have taught spiritual subjects, are the ones best suited to preserving them for the future. This is a recipe for possible failure as they cannot be sure that the right type of person is being trained with the knowledge they are giving them. Bhagavad Gita Chpt 18 v 67 reads.

"This is never to be spoken by you to one who is devoid of austerities, nor to one who is not devoted, nor to one who does not do service, nor to one who speaks ill of Me."

This is almost as bad as those who come knocking on my front door, asking me to join their religious sect. If they are happy to enrol anyone, who they do not know and who may have previously had absolutely no real interest in spiritual matters; then they should also understand that such a person could eventually aspire to lead their organisation. How many deviations will that entail?

The SES strategy of forcing children to learn spiritual subjects at an early age has caused many to reject a valuable subject later in their lives, not because of what the subject is, but because it was forced into them. Whatever happens, children eventually will become adult and live and think for themselves. Almost all people have hang-ups about some aspects of their childhood. But hang-ups connected in any way with spiritual matters can be amongst the most difficult to deal with. This shows the lack of care which has predominated over SES decisions and behaviour.

One point I remember when I first visited our teacher in India in 1990. After he had outlined the system for engaging in spiritual disciplines and the preparation of a programme of spiritual practises (sadhana in Sanskrit) He said, "Whatever you choose to do, make sure that you do not cause any physical or mental stress in your life due to your Sadhana. This would be counter-productive for your spiritual journey." SES would be advised to take that one leaf out of Swami's book.
Last edited by Dr.Alan on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

Gerasene Demon
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Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Gerasene Demon » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:19 pm

Or has everyone involved including Shankaracharyas, Maclaren and yourself fallen under the spell of Maharishi?

Ella.M.C.
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Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Ella.M.C. » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:30 pm

Dr. Alan,

Thank you for the entry "Seventh Mistake"
It makes perfect sense, and I can see examples and how SFSK did
the same mistake in school here.

All of your posts for some reason seem to settle my mind about everything that has happened.
I think on reflection that this is something along the lines of feeling set adrift/lost, or something similar
after putting your trust and faith in people and a school wholeheartedly for so long,
and then finding out it was a lie, and you had been deceived, and that they actually lied to you
personally about serious spiritual matters.
A silly example, but .. like when as a child you find out that Santa Claus is not real, it can be devastating.

Not that I ever had any doubts about the tradition of Advaita Vedanta, it was realising even more
after leaving of the tactics used there (SKSK) .. that whilst there, you do not see so fully,
possibly because you are more caught in the dream. (if this makes sense)
Thank you again ..

Hello Gerasene,

I don't believe that the Shankaracharya Swami Swarupananda has fallen under the spell of Maharishi,
he spoke of him in India in 2012, he knows full well all about him.
But is not critical he just speaks as it is.
Also even Michael Mavro was very scathing about the Maharishi, I recall a conversation he had with me
about those days and the Beatles involvement.
He thought him so bad, but he still chose to give us the 'special initiation ceremony',
which is in reality a Guru Puja worship ceremony from Maharishi, available easily in printed form.

Gerasene Demon
Posts: 139
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Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Gerasene Demon » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:29 am

Hi. I wasn’t thinking about him I was referring to the two on the SES site, he’s more sophisticated. Same thing different brand only he’ll have you donating money of your own free will. Check out Silence on Sundays, that is the latest offshoot of the SES, no fees there either. Can the leader be an addict? Yes, I once waited on a guy who owned a tobacco plantation, production plant and brand. He chain smoked throughout the meal between mouthfuls. Would you be grateful if another person offered you a new brand of cigarettes if you just stopped? As intelligent people we are still open to manipulation. Why did he ask me to move my post to his thread? He is clearly a very intelligent man but I duped him, not maliciously but to prove a point. I’m not a guru I’m just an ordinary person who doesn’t claim to be enlightened in the least but I have known them nearly all my life and I’m telling you this philosophy is just a very sophisticated con. Don’t just take my word for it, you have to work it out for yourself and when you do it’s great. Are you willing to consider that you may be at a vulnerable stage where you have left exploitation and may be seduced into further exploitation (keep an open mind)? Would it not be a better activity to celebrate your humanity by living freely and happily rather than endless analysis of it? I have found life more rewarding when lived. Oh, be careful of “online cults” too they are the latest manifestation of this sort of con and that’s what just happened here. All the best.

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Ella.M.C. » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:36 am

Gerasene Demon wrote:Hi. Are you willing to consider that you may be at a vulnerable stage where you have left exploitation and may be seduced into further exploitation (keep an open mind)? Would it not be a better activity to celebrate your humanity by living freely and happily rather than endless analysis of it? I have found life more rewarding when lived. Oh, be careful of “online cults” too they are the latest manifestation of this sort of con and that’s what just happened here. All the best.


Hello Gerasene,

That certainly was a surprise post, which I shall consider.
Your words quoted above are what stood out for me on this initial reading.

I most certainly have considered (and others I know also) and whether at a vulnerable stage or not,
that we do not want to fall into any such trap again, being manipulated, and not given a pure
unadulterated teaching.

And yes, to celebrate humanity by living freely and happily (it is much easier out of school) ..
but the 'endless analysis of it', for me boils down to the fact that ever since I was a young
teenager I have wanted to know the meaning of this life, and always felt that someone must know the answer.
I do believe that the Advaita Vedanta system and the Shankaracharya know this and of course.. not theoretically!
So to me it is only natural to be drawn to such a true source of knowledge.

Gerasene Demon
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Gerasene Demon » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:46 pm

Hi,
It’s just a self-perpetuating confidence trick. All I saw was a charismatic person come on the site claiming to be more enlightened than anyone else offering insight. He can throw light into dark corners he’s so enlightened, that’s why he’s here remember (although he’s deleted it). It must be believable, he’s endorsed it with his own family. He claimed he was concerned about our spirituality and what may happen which is nothing more than superstitious nonsense. The temple in north India was knocked down by the Buddhists (what made such a passive people do that, I really don’t know) presumably they should have evaporated into the ether by now. Anybody who has sworn in church will tell you they have also not been struck down by lightning. I wrote what he believed was an endorsement and he asked me to move it to his thread. He came looking for me, not the other way around. In his heightened state of ego he must have loved it. If he is so cosmic, aware and enlightened why did he not see my con? I became his first student and asked a question but as we know blind obedience is required, they don’t indulge in criticism or negativity so it becomes self-perpetuating because it can only be right. Before you know it you’ve been sucked right back in, it’s ingenious. In this particular case I think Dr Alan knows exactly what he’s doing although it’s possible he may be deluded himself. If you know the trick anyone can set up an ashram and exploit people. I understood this forum to be about discussion not a recruiting ground. It’s just a trap.

Ahamty2
Posts: 79
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Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Ahamty2 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:12 pm

Ella M.C. You wrote:
“I do believe that the Advaita Vedanta system and the Shankaracharya know this and of course.. not theoretically!
So to me it is only natural to be drawn to such a true source of knowledge.”
How do you know and verify this?
Gerasene Demon has raised some very valid points regarding this thread about the ‘Mistakes against the Shankaracharya’s Tradition’. Dr.Alan has given a very elaborate intellectual and theoretical explanation of Advaita Vedanta under the direction of his Shankaracharya as noted in his signature he says he “found a real Guru " how do you know a real guru? . The Mavros went to this person as well, so is this thread to protect the Shankaracharya’s reputation?
The Vedas were written in about 1300 BC, so was Hellenic Philosophy, Persian Philosophy and Chinese Philosophy, perhaps they decided to send everyone an email back then to spread the word.
Why do you need a guru in India for spiritual enlightenment and what is so outstanding about Advaita Vedanta ie jnana yoga and the guru being a Shankaracharya? These seats of position have been subject to court cases as to who has the right to claim them. Why is this different to say the Pope’s position in Rome or the Archbishop of Canterbury in the UK.
What is this guru attraction that people want to have one! They are ordinary human beings like everyone else, after all what is a so called realised man (soul) anyway, how can any of it be verified?
We all know that the SES; SOP; SoM; SSNP;SFSK have got it wrong, that is why we are on this forum. What is the attraction to exotic India for spiritual uplift. Does it really matter if Sufism existed before Islam, some of sufism’s great mystics are followers of Islam. Christ was a Jew and a mystic. We don’t really know if he did exist even, let alone what he said. He was not a Christian, he was an Essene and possibly a follower of the Kabbalah (mystical Judaism).

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Ella.M.C. » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:00 pm

Hello Ahamty2,

Thank you for you post and the questions/points you have raised.
Unfortunately I do not have the time now to consider and answer properly.

But I can see your point ..and I do need to question things and myself more.
My only defence being that having read much, and from 20 odd years in school, the
Advaita Vedanta system, and the Scriptures makes perfect sense to me.
So for now ..thank you.

Gerasene Demon .. Thank you.

Gerasene Demon
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Gerasene Demon » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:42 am

IMPORTANT NOTICE.

I AM IN NO DOUBT THIS MAN IS A FRAUDSTER AND HAS NO PLACE ON THIS FORUM. DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM. DO NOT TRUST HIM. I HAVE REPORTED THE SITUATION TO THE MODERATOR.

ManOnTheStreet
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby ManOnTheStreet » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:14 am

Gerasene,

I'm not exactly sure how you came to your conclusion above. It doesn't seem to me that Dr. Alan is a fraudster, particularly if his only sin is to have attempted to shed some more light on what Vedanta is supposed to say about the various aspects of the Indian tradition promoted in these Schools. I also do not believe the claims of Vedanta, but the fact that Dr. Alan does is not a reason for me to consider him a fraud. I think he has highlighted some important discrepancies between real Vedanta and the material offered by these Schools at certain times during their history.

I think we need to allow everyone to say their piece here - it's only in discussion that the validity of people's claims can be examined and questioned. Dr. Alan has obviously gone to some trouble to put his views forward - perhaps it would be better to actually examine what he says instead of just calling him a fraud because we disagree with his conclusions.

I also have not found any of his posts to be suggestive of some kind of recruiting drive - I have read them all again now and I really don't get the sense that he is trying to recruit anyone. I would be interested to know why you think he is.

As far as your "dupe" of Dr. Alan is concerned - it merely makes it harder to trust that you are being genuine in any of your own posts if you are willing to do such a thing to him. I don't think the interests of this thread are served when we are dishonest to each other. This forum is valuable in large part because people feel they can really say what they think without fear of repercussion or penalty. Let's keep it that way.

Ella,

Ahamty2's points are valid - 20 years in the SFSK did not give you an accurate picture of Advait-Vedanta. I actually think you would agree with me on that point. Furthermore, when you say you have read much - how much have you read of authors (even in Shankara's time) who disagreed with his conclusions? (Sri Ramanuja's commentary on the Brahma-Sutras for example). Perhaps you might find that their views also make sense? The main point here is that you can't really come to a reasonable conclusion about Vedanta until you read informed arguments on both sides.

Ahamty2,

Ahamty2 wrote:Why do you need a guru in India for spiritual enlightenment and what is so outstanding about Advaita Vedanta ie jnana yoga and the guru being a Shankaracharya? These seats of position have been subject to court cases as to who has the right to claim them. Why is this different to say the Pope’s position in Rome or the Archbishop of Canterbury in the UK.


I tend to agree with you on this point. It seems to me that the issue surrounding the Shankaracharyas in India is one that is only of importance to religious Indians. It's really not relevant to us, and even less relevant to the question of whether the claims of Vedanta itself can be substantiated. Personally, I am much more interested in what these people say about Vedanta than what they say about each other. From the point of view of the tradition, it would seem that if you have a teacher you would follow them regardless of their position in society. In any case - it's a moot point: the more interesting question is the one you raised regarding the "need" for a guru in India and so on. If the claims of Vedanta are true and this "true knowledge" is as ubiquitous as they say, then it hardly seems necessary to go to India in order to find it. The real issue is the verification of these truth-claims - and that is something that no supporter of Vedanta (at least on this forum) has been able to resolve to date.

-----

As an aside:

I understand that for many of us our experience of 'School' was very bleak (to say the least), but it is also important to acknowledge that in many of these places (with the unfortunate exception of the SFSK) a new generation is gradually taking over - one that is rejecting a lot of those old notions. I'm not trying to absolve anyone here - but I am flagging the possibility that the label "deliberate con-men" may no longer be an appropriate one for some of these new people.

MOTS

Gerasene Demon
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Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Gerasene Demon » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:40 am

I am happy to leave this to the moderator.

Dr.Alan
Posts: 70
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Location: UK

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Dr.Alan » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:13 am

During my short stay on this forum so far - I believe I understand what its purpose is; and so I will try to embody my understanding in a single sentence. I am sure you will correct me if it is not to your liking.

PURPOSE OF FORUM
The opportunity for ex members of SES to honestly share their knowledge and experience from having been at SES and since leaving, so that others can benefit in some way by the knowledge and experience of those others on the forum.

HOW TO MAINTAIN THE PURPOSE
I would also like to add to the above a few corollaries which would be a required code, such that the stated purpose above is best allowed to function. These are in the form of what the forum is not for.

1. Not for people to post up any material which is untrue.
2. Not to engage in personal attacks of others on the forum, directly or indirectly.
3. Not to deliberately read into a post matters which it does not say, so as to distort it for another purpose.
4. Not to attempt to destroy any value in a post which others may find in it.
5. Not confuse any issue by theorising and therefore to write only from personal experience .
6. Not for recruiting ex SES members into any other kind of group or forum.

Here again, I am sure you will correct me if it is not to your liking.
Last edited by Dr.Alan on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

Dr.Alan
Posts: 70
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Location: UK

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Dr.Alan » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:54 am

CONFUSION BETWEEN HINDUISM AND VEDANTA
Reading some posts and the -net links which are put up, I see there is confusion between Hinduism and Vedanta. Even some modern Indians are not so well versed as perhaps they should be. To try and root their religion as far back in time as they can, some Indian scholars are equating the source of Hinduism with that of the Vedanta literature. This is a sneaky way to claim longevity of a faith. It is true that Hinduism borrows very many of the Vedantic scriptures to support its various beliefs etc. But that does not equate to two as one. After all, Islam and Christianity both borrow most of the Old Testament to support their way of faith, which was Judaic in origin.
When asking our teacher what His opinion was about us being people from a Christian based country studying Advaita Vedanta philosophy, to confirm that Vedanta is not a religion, He quoted from the great Indian sage Vivekananda , "The Advaita Vedanta philosophy will make a Christian a better Christian, a Muslim a better Muslim and a Hindu a better Hindu, a Buddhist a better Buddhist and so on."
How could a great and knowledgeable sage, renowned for His understanding of most belief systems on Earth, include the Religion of His own country in the above list? The answer is simple. Vedanta is not a religion, it is a way of life. The nearest we have to this in the west is true Sufism, not the form of Sufism which has been adopted my some who also follow the Koran. It is because Sufism is less restrictive and had become popular in the 20th century that some groups adopted Sufism and have attached it to religion. This is sneaky way to get some freedoms from orthodoxy along with a good reputation. Sufism is also a way of life. There is clear evidence that Sufism originated with Pythagoras. (yes - the triangles man) Who is there amongst us that thinks of Pythagoras as a man who started a religion.
The same it is with Vedanta, its originators were not connected to any specific religious community, this includes all the true modern teachers of it. So if we remove this confusion between religious belief systems and philosophic ways it may help to clarify some of the confusion which clouds the views of some statements, especially on the Internet. You have no way of knowing what authority (if any) is behind any Internet sites.
Last edited by Dr.Alan on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

Ahamty2
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:03 am

Re: Mistakes against the Shankaracharya Tradition

Postby Ahamty2 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:16 pm

Dr.Alan It appears that I have touched a raw nerve for you to take me to task on my one short post. You write:
“So that you may know a little more accurately matters which you have guesses at, here is some help for you.
I am unable to find any material in what I have so far posted, which claims or states the following.
That I am more enlightened than others on the forum; That I was concerned about the spirituality of other forum members. That I am cosmically aware. That I have a Shankaracharya as a teacher. That I am interested in recruiting followers. That the Mavros went to the same teacher in India as myself. That I was asked by any teacher in India to enter this forum for their purposes.”

Well from your long posts on the tradition of Shankaracharya and your style of writing I then misconstrued that your guru is in the lineage of Shankaracharya and the same one as the Mavros. Other than this, I have made no other reference to any of the above. Not everyone on this forum happens to be Anglo Saxon and British educated and have English as their mother tongue. However, my wife is Anglo Saxon and British educated. She read my only short post on this thread and your comments. Her response was, this Dr.Alan is a bit over the top and being pedantic. I don’t know Gerasene Demon never PM this person so I don’t know what your problem with this person is all about.
I have been on this forum since it was part of the “Whyaretheydead” site with Mike in Holland as moderator, albeit under another user name. Those who know who I am or guess from my style of writing who I am, will know I don’t shy away from controversy. So for a newbie, you are rather arrogant to be setting down the ground rules for this forum, don’t you think!
You don’t know me and I don’t intend placing my life up on this forum where I am from, my life history, or family background, my personal life is private. Michael and Nina Mavro may know about my background being from the ‘top group’ of the Sydney SOP but that is where it stays.
I don’t care who your guru is, whether a real one or a con, that is your affair, the fact you need one is really your problem, nothing to do with me at all. You wrote in your second post this: “You have both clearly been the victims of serious abuse by people associated with SES” So who is making the guesses here, because I have never been a “victim of serious abuse by people associated with the SES”. I don’t have any hatred or negative feelings towards anyone in these organizations even Leon Maclaren, Michael and Nina Mavro, in fact, they are to be pitied for their ignorances.
I would be of similar age to you, I have two daughters,44yrs and 41yrs, both with double degrees in Psychology and counsel victims of violence and abuse. I am a medical professional who spent his early years in private psychiatric hospitals, so we are all familiar with theses illnesses. I am only interested in Justice for those in these organizations who have suffered abuse, justice should not only to be seen to be done but for justice to be done. This forum is used for this purpose only and to make others aware of the dangers of these organizations, all of them, including so called ‘spiritual’ ones.
Perhaps, I will write my posts in Arabic, Farsi, sometimes in Greek or Latin that may help!


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