Thank you Bella!

A place for discussions that don't fit elsewhere.
Snowman
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:31 am
Location: London

Postby Snowman » Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:43 am

NYC wrote:
Ho Hum bug (in a different thread) wrote:Keir has?encapsulated one of the most insidious aspects of the SES: the vanity of 'being in the know'

Gandalf, in this last post you are quite nicely EMBODYING the vanity of ?being in the know? yourself. We get it, you used to drink sherry with Lambie cause you were so high up in the hierarchy. Big whoope.

But whatever made you throw it all away?


Hey, NYC,

I think that there is a difference about "being in the know" when it comes to the secrets of the universe and what actually happens in the physical world.

The SES claims ownership of the TRUTH and that they are the only organisation that is "in the know" about that. I understand this to be what HoHumBug was referring to.

Gandalf claims to be "in the know" about an event which was witnessed whilst in the SES, as described.

IMO there is a significant difference.

As to "throwing it all away", I think it sounds like having left the SES (I assume) Gandalf has escaped rather than "thrown it all away". Or maybe you mean "throwing away" like you throw out trash - the institutionalised trash that is the SES and its corrupt morals.

I also agree that the flaming, sarcasm and slanging should stop - it has no place here. I hope that bella can take her obvious courage into her next SES meeting and start to ask some probing questions without fear of humiliation and rebuke. In the UK members of the SES have been instructed not to visit this forum so I am happy that bella and others are participating.

HoHumBug
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:31 pm

Censorship

Postby HoHumBug » Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:01 am

In Catholic countries until the late 60's churches used to have bulletin boards which were updated weekly with all the films and books that were classified by the Vatican as evil and which the faithful were banned from. Followers had to confess to the priest if they had seen or read these so as to obtain absolution. Film-makers included such evil people as Bunuel, De Sica, Fellini and Polanski some of whose films showed the Church in a less than holy light. Perhaps the SES should have bulletin boards in all the schools with regard to evil music, films, books and, of course, web sites.

ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

poor bella

Postby ross nolan » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:09 am

Jeezzz -- let's all take a deep breath here ! Even though she would not need it or ask for it I feel compelled to say something here in defence of Bella (and against the undercurrent of "colonial" putdown vaguely rearing it's ugly head )-- as a fellow aussie I will happily trade insults about our regional peculiarities eg "bloody banana bender" but draw the line at inferences that Brisbane is somehow to be compared to an Amazonian rainforest peopled by ignorant savages when it comes from some 'quite possibly, 'whining pom'.

See , how did that make you feel ?

I just tripped over the last few postings that seem to have descended to trading insults and sniping from the trenches and "who is most suspect from their SES exposure"? -- in fighting won't help anyone.

None of us would recognize the other passing in the street (and quite possibly would take an instant dislike if introduced ) and yet here we are engaging in an exchange of, hopefully, civilized ideas and isn't the common factor that somehow we all had an interest in the application of earnest,thoughtful human intellect to discern valid knowledge ?

(That's a sort of definition of "philosophy" that avoids the buzz word truth that is so overused and abused as to be worthless )

Can we use civilized methods to criticize our ideas (if not constructive criticism at least civil conflict ) ?

I am sure that Brisbane is no more or less cultured in relation to SES practices than London -- anyway my objection to the SES is it's reversion to 5000 year old dogma -- what effect does a seventy year versus eighteen year tradition have in reality on that degree of backwardness ?

Not everything about mankind neccesarily advances in time and basic thinking on the human condition is one area where a Socrates or Plato can indeed find enduring truths including HOW to argue.

The 'housekeeping' and organizational practices of the SES/SOP are clearly a large part of the problem with ex members and the objections to it -- without some degree of conformity just about any organization will collapse ( the analogy of "herding cats" is often used ) and adult members are probably fairly likely to be strong minded and have dissenting opinions -- I think a general discussion group that worked and didn't get bogged in Vedic or Christian or any other dogma would be a good thing.

Maybe Brisbane has better avoided this fault than the "mother" school ?
(just like those 'bloody colonials' have usurped the manly art of cricket , no damn right to ,if you ask me Fortesque ! )

HoHumBug, you cannot set up your own 'strawman' in the Amazonian jungle then burn him down and heap scorn on Bella ...(?) The issue of Catholic birth control is irrelevant as is the example but the analogy is intended to insult. Not fair.

Believe or not Global warming is not indisputably the fault of Exxon or even of western civilization -- 95% of the greenhouse contribution is from water vapour (hiss,boo) and just imagine the emissions of how many "dark satanic mills" and "evil" horseless carriages were needed to melt the two mile thick ice sheets of the last ice age . Have you heard of Milankovitch cycles ? (might pay to research it first )

Bella is taking a risk in losing her circle of friends and sense of belonging by contributing -- my late mother was a Jehovah's Witness for forty years and they exercise control by the threat of "disfellowship" -- the total cutting off from their longtime 'friends' if they transgress (even their family if they are members ) and the total loss of immortal life which only those with the Truth can offer. Even the Amish "shun" wayward members into submission as do the "nice" Quakers -- isolation and banishment are powerful detterents in many religions .

F.T. What on Earth does... "when you aren't a troll " mean (?) better have a different meaning than in Australian idiom.

Can we have some more factual and substantial content about the SES and not the 'personalities' Mac Laren etc ? For starters Ho Hum Bug what does "re part 36 or so " refer to ? Is there a published,numbered course that can be located somewhere ? A lot of the cross talk between ex members seems to presume a familiarity and understanding of shorthand terms that do not actually explain anything to outsiders or neophytes .

BTW why Ho HumBug ? (humbug is 'lying or deception' and even refers to a "sexual predator, especially between a white man and aboriginal woman" although I only learn this from my Oxford,Australian dictionary --no doubt because of the humbug sweets black and white bands -- also like Communist leaning "Greenies" as "watermelons - green outside,red in the middle' -- this is like a lot of idealogical argument where you have to subscribe in toto to someone elses's preformed 'thought system' or be ostracized etc

Working people don't vote Tory (conservative) -- some do especially if they came from communist countries (workers paradise - yeh! ) and good christians oppose capitalism, blame industry for global warming et etc .

Bella or anybody else can believe in a part of some organization but not another or not behave as expected (or demanded ) by others who see themselves as part of some monolithic 'other' - I probably agree or disagree with just as many things with you as with Bella so let's stick to arguments on fact and not attack persons or stereotypes.

Thanks Ross N.
Skeptic

ross nolan
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 5:10 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

correction

Postby ross nolan » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:21 pm

A self correction before I draw your wrath -- after posting I realized that the originator of the Amazonian-condom using- blissfully ignorant etc savages was firstly Gandalf and only taken up (but enthusiastically ) by HoHumBug after -- in any case my objection to the implied analogy stands . Gandalf you dissapoint me on this , is that what you were up to after dissappearing with the Balrog ? You must not forget your full title of "Gandalf the Wise" and at all times live up to it.

Apologies for my faux pax -- can someone read my latest on "experiences with the adult schools" and help flesh out my understanding of the foundations of SES teachings and see if snowman's comprehensive posting jogs memories -- need more specific leads to fully "know thy enemy" . Has anyone any actual class notes that can be scanned or transcribed ?

Ross N,
Skeptic


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