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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:09 pm
by Zathura
I am not represented by Matthew Wolf or Co or Justice or the School or anyone. I think it should be remembered that the report may only be the tip of the iceberg for 'these' guys but it's like drops at the bottom of the sea for the majority of St James leavers

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:15 pm
by Snowman
Hi Zathura

What do you mean by that?

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:22 pm
by Zathura
What do you mean by this?

Hi by the way

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:38 pm
by Snowman
Please indulge me...

Were you surprised by the Inquiry findings?

Do you condone the criminal behaviour of certain teachers?

Are you concerned that St James now is still under the control of the SES?

Are you concerned by the cult-like tendencies of the SES?

Are you still a member of the SES?

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:44 pm
by Zathura
go an indulge yourself freako

I'm not answering your interogations.

what I will say is I don't find a group of people getting together to spin out an oh so couragous self rightious antidote to the S.E.S original does them or me any favours. Tone down your noble/couragous/majestic talk.

To my ears it sounds daft.

i'm as human as the next. I don't consider myself to be a hero for it

'how dare you' intimate I have mental health problems? (because I had a near suicide?)

To use your own word

FUCK off.

Just goes to show how simplistic your view of life is

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:52 pm
by parent

I am pasting extracts from a "How to deal with Cults" website: It might help us all communicate with some that are antagonised.

DO NOT act in an angry or hostile manner towards the cult member.

DO NOT feel alone. It happens to thousands of families every year.

DO NOT underestimate the control the cult has over a member.

DO NOT antagonise the cult member by ridiculing his/her beliefs.

DO NOT be judgemental or confrontational towards the cult member.

DO NOT antagonise any of the cult's leadership or members.

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:08 pm
by Snowman
Thanks, Parent

I am trying to understand why Zathura is on this BB.

All I can see is his/her desire to antagonise and stir up argument. Why? I don't know.

I was shaking with anger when I read what he/she said about the 'abused', as he/she called them. I reacted badly and apologise to Zathura for insinuating that you have mental health problems.

My view of life, simplistic or otherwise, has no relevance to these discussions. My view of the SES and St James, on the other hand, does.

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:36 pm
Stop the propoganda
The anti's and the pros are BOTH propoganda

The threads seemed to be reaching a resolution so to speak. Has it all just deccipated.

It should not be forgotten that its not about winning or loosing, but about appropriate action being taken for the correct period in time. A clear distiction needs to be made here don't you agree.

If you don't believe the students as they speak out loud and clear to you about the St james today. Why not quiz the staff? Am sure They would be happy to speak out but then again would it make a difference!!!!!!

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:51 pm
by Zathura
Parent I'm not that angry. I certainly wasn't shaking with anger. I just don't like being called a retard or that I have health problems just because I have different opinions. This is common on the thread. It is really stupid. There are about six issues that people seem to see the world through on this site. Abuse, mental health problems, anger, confusion and certainty, and legality.
In the outside world these are not the vocabulary that life is seen through or talked about.
Parent you are INCREDIBLY INCREDIBLY patronizing. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such cardboard cut out paper thin assumptions. I am not a cult member. If I was I wouldn't need you. I certainly would not be attracted to aggressive impositions of rules of behaviour and I would find you incredibally self rightious and zombified yourself. Listen to yourself! You are the one with the agenda. You are the one with the list of 'other people's rules' which you recite verbatum. You are the loser if you want to relagate me to the position of loser because in my opinion you are losing this intellectual debate if you can call it that.

Now Snowman had just called me mentally instable. HE swore at me. Now do I or do I not as a human being, not as a politically corect cult advisory warning waving patronizing parent ,have the right, to swear back. Or not? Just because I had an opinion that contradicted his he calls mentally instable.Is this a sensible conclusion? I don't think so. This is not a sensible conclusion. Only a person obsessed with mental instability would come to this conclusion. It is just not a normal conclusion to come to. I am not interested in Snowman's apology as I never took offense just as I am not interested in Parent's saving of me. To me it is so totally erronious that it hardly needs mentioning. I was a member of the school YOU sent YOUR son or daughter to. Surely you are a PART of any cult member problem I have.

As to my reason for being on the site. Snowman I don't expect you to read every post but at Kier's suggestion I outlined these reasons a while back in an open letter.

So you say I am just here to wind everyone up. No I am here to be heard just like you are. Chill out. This is a debating forum if a little aroused just now.

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:30 pm
by parent
Good Luck to you all.

Good Luck to the SES or whatever it is called now. Good luck to all your schools. My child is now FREE and I was there to protect my child.

Good bye.

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:35 pm
by Zathura
I wish you luck and your child at a normal school which is where I will be sending mine.


Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:46 pm
by concerned-parent
Snowman, I am not Zathura and I cannot speak for her/him, but I think there is a valid point being made. For example there are posts made about cults that somehow bypass the question of whether the SES is in fact a cult. I am not saying it isn't, but there it is suddenly as a fact, together with lists of what to look out for, and theories about brainwashing. There has been no debate about this; it is a subtle and insidious accusation that means that anyone who tries to explain what they have found positive about the school or the SES, or who disagrees in some way is labelled as a cult member and and of course, brainwashed. And therefore needs to be handled in a certain way, for example - and most certainly dismissed as a person with their own point of view. Personally I find no difference in this sort of attitude to the sort of attitude that resulted in children being beaten into toeing the line, and (although this makes me, as a father, see red and get furious) forced into adopting a version of philosophy that did not take their own individuality or wishes into account. (Why does the latter make me particularly furious, rather than the former? Because I was caned unfairly at my school, I was 'slippered', 'rulered', and had chalk dusters chucked at me, but NEVER in order to force a belief in reality or god.) The action may be different, but the attitude is the same.

It is not propoganda exactly, because that implies something deliberate, but it just gets thicker and thicker because it is so hard to step back and say how did I get to the point where I believe what I believe; what is MY personal experience, and what is someone else's ideas about my experience. Where is the line? The testimonies on this site speak for themselves - DEAR GOD they speak for themselves. They do not need this garnishing and garlanding with all these theories, which are just theories whether true or not. They are not the reality of what happened. I don't know anything about brainwashing, but I suspect it starts with this line being blurred.

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:36 pm
by nilsabm
Agree with you that the sniping is irritating Wildone, and accept that the senior boys' school, at least, is different to that which we experienced. There seems to be a tendency for people on both sides to ignore what is being said in favour of what they think is being said.

I am interested to hear everyone's views on the thread titled, ?Towards a reconciliation....? . There are some propositions outlined on the opening post. Say what you think of them. I'm not bothered whether people agree or disagree, nor am I there to judge people for their viewpoints. All I ask is that comments made are rational and considered.