Bridge over troubled water....

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bluemoon
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Bridge over troubled water....

Postby bluemoon » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:53 pm

Change of name: I have been asked by someone on the forum to change my name as it concerns them that I am ‘troubled’. I am so grateful because this made me realise that I have been troubled for quite a long time. It is not my nature to be troubled. I have picked the name ‘bluemoon’ as this represents a rare event, and for me therein lies hope, which even when all else fails is always there. Apparently there is a Blue Moon tonight, 31st December 2009, so it seemed a good time to make the change.
Last edited by bluemoon on Wed May 23, 2012 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
SES London, 1990-2009, Female

Gerasene Demon
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby Gerasene Demon » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:16 pm

xxx
Last edited by Gerasene Demon on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bonsai
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby bonsai » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:44 pm

An interesting article Bluemoon (I'm not sure I can handle all these changes of name)

However I have huge huge issues with it and I'll sight some examples from it

...unwritten laws of the universe enshrined in the principles of harmony, rhythm, balance, mutuality, reciprocity and connectivity. The law of the universe is simple and clear: all are related, everything depends on everything else.

Here in the first paragraph after saying that nature is free to be self organised it then implies that nature has qualities somewhat based on principle. This may or may not be true but is often invoked as an axionatic truth as arguements for intelligent design and the existence of greater truth and power. This entirely misrepresents laws of nature. A law of nature for example is that of gravity. The law of gravity simple says that mass is attracted to mass. When a boulder breaks off a mountain is rolls down hill. There is no balance, harmony or rhythm in this. The boulder rolls down hill hitting whatever is in its path without care or discrimination. Nature does not attribute value to things.

Humans have, for one reason or another, cultivated a desire to control: first of all to control natural systems and then to control others. It is clear that we cannot control Nature. We cannot control floods or rain, or climate.

Well actually that's not true. The history of human scientific progress is one of modelling nature to understand it in order that we harness it, avoid impacts of it and in some cases control it. We do control where rivers flow. We control how nuclear reactions take place to provide energy. We cannot yet make winds blow or the sun shine or rain fall, yet we have learnt the processes provide abundant energy, manipulate crops to provide food and construct elaborate and safe shelters. Humanity's nature to control and master has gained it the dominant species on the planet. It time it may well prove its downfall but don't knock the natural instincts of humans. This can be used for good or evil intent alike and generally civilisation shows more cooperation than ever before on both individalistic and global scales

Now is the time to stop and observe dispassionately the human predicament. Why are we keeping hundreds of millions of people in jail around the world? Why are we wasting a huge amount of talent, technology and wealth spying on each other, controlling others, fighting wars and murdering innocents? Surely we can do better? Surely we could trust the self-correcting nature of humanity and spend our time, talent and technology as well as creativity and ingenuity to care, to nurture and to replenish as the natural world does?

It is so easy to look at humanity and civilisation for where it fails. It is so easy to accuse humanity of failing and blame this on poor motivations. Of course we can do better. But let's be balanced about striving to do better at the same time as appreciating what we've achieved and where we've come from.

I cannot stand the way the SES has impacted my education by continually knocked mankind and it's selfish motivations whilst disregarding the achievements of humanity and particularly it's collective cooperative will. And most other religions do this too.

Bonsai

bluemoon
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby bluemoon » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:21 pm

delete
Last edited by bluemoon on Wed May 23, 2012 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
SES London, 1990-2009, Female

bluemoon
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby bluemoon » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:58 am

deleted
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SES London, 1990-2009, Female

ConcernedMum
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby ConcernedMum » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:05 am

bluemoon wrote:Apart from suggesting that I would make 'defamatory' remarks about the SES, Donald Lambie also wrote:

"The article by Satish Kumar is lovely."

I have been seeking something in common. This is it. Perhaps I should not be working this out publicly but there it is, I have done so because I felt vulnerable.

I don't suppose this means much to those of you that have been badly affected in the past, but it means something to me because I was worried about the future of the SES, and this for me means that the emphasis on the Hindu tradition of caste systems and suppression of women may be on the wane. Also since I posted the 'defamatory' statement it is only fair to post the positive remark also.

Bluemoon (previously stiltrubld)


I think in your hugely admirable attempts to keep with your integrity, you are possibly being too kind.

Does it not strike you as more than slightly ironic that DL should express how lovely a piece about how good it would be if we stopped trying to control each other in the same breadth as he hints at legal action over your notes, presumably, so that you won't distribute them?

They've threatened legal action against newspapers in this jurisdiction too. Such action would clearly carry huge risk for them too as there must be quite a considerable number of people at this stage only too ready to say in court that they experienced the same at the hands of these people!

You are very brave and TOO kind!

bluemoon
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby bluemoon » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:20 am

Thanks ConcernedMum
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SES London, 1990-2009, Female

ConcernedMum
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby ConcernedMum » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:18 am

bluemoon wrote:Guilty as charged! Wishful thinking is my problem. Thanks ConcernedMum!


I recognise the affliction. I have struggled with holding to the truth, or at least my truth, of a situation and how to address unacceptable behaviour towards me from others without being unkind. I think humility and humour are important - we can never really know what is going on for someone else but a false sense of humility where we ignore all that our instincts are screaming at us about what is wrong or right serves no one.

I don't think we are being kind when we buy into the delusions others have about themselves when we know them to be delusions.

Maybe Mr Lambie should be asked "Mr Lambie, who is it who can be defamed?" LOL!*

*edited in case of misunderstanding that is a mild advaita joke about ego and the man who leads an organisation supposedly about going beyond ego (:-) and the apparent paradox between defamation and the mirage of personhood, not about defamation per se which is a law on the statute book.

Ahamty2
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby Ahamty2 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:57 am

Bluemoon,
We need to be mindful (now that’s a SES expression) that DL and the SES legal eagles have only one stick that they can wave around at ex SES’s and that is the ‘defamatory’ stick. Just remember that it is a perceived threat only. The SES tried all this when the ’Secret Cult’ was published, they tried to stop it from being published when that failed they tried to stop its distribution. The SOP under Mavro threatened legal action against the distributors here. I was involved with the Daily Telegraph articles that appear on another thread here. As the legal dept of Rupert Murdoch’s News Ltd told us that to get to us the SOP would have to go through them and as long as we have told the truth and it happened to us whether actual or perceived by our own personal experience there is nothing defamatory about it because you actual experienced it personally. The SES knows this only too well.
That is why the more our experiences are put in the public arena such as on this forum, DL and the SES are losing ground to threaten action to stop what people say happened to them in the SES whether positive or negative so their threat of any action against an individual becomes weaker. They succeeded in preventing Clara Salaman mentioning the name of the organization and the school in her interviews because her experiences were veiled in a fictional story and therefore deemed a work of fiction and can’t be seen as true. Hence, they were able to use the defamatory threat and get away with it.
Little did the Mavros know that a much more damning series of articles was ready to go to press, written by an investigative journalist from the Fairfax media group. He had got wind of the Evening Standard articles in London about to be printed and heard that the SOP was part of the SES and did his own digging with telephoto shots of the comings and goings at their Neutral Bay house and all the activities along with recorded interviews from people. Fairfax’s legal team got cold feet as they thought it was all too far fetched to be true and pulled the plug on the day of the first publication. However, News Ltd took it up and ran with it, albeit, less sensational. The publication of Peter Hounam and Andrew Hogg ‘ Secret Cult’ showed that it was far worse. A segment on Sydney’s current affairs “This Day,Tonight” was screened on Sydney TV showing Mavro going into the Kent St building shielded by his minder Danny Opacic who put his hand over the camera lens but the audio picked up his comments.
Yes, Mr Lambie: “Who is it that can be defamed? Isn’t it all maya, the play of the mother goddess, Shakti!” See, they don’t even believe themselves in what they teach! HH is a Shaivite,a follower of Shiva. Didn’t he say:
"As the consciousness on which all this resultant world is established, whence it issues, is free in its nature, it cannot be restricted anywhere. As it moves in the differentiated states of waking, sleeping, etc., identifying itself with them, it never falls from its true nature as the knower."
As it says in Advaita:
"That alone in which there is no pleasure, no pain, no known or knower, nor again unconsciousness, really exists."

Free
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:30 pm

Postby Free » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:22 pm

<delete>
Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

bluemoon
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby bluemoon » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:09 pm

Thanks very much Ahamty2. That is very interesting to know.
Last edited by bluemoon on Wed May 23, 2012 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
SES London, 1990-2009, Female

bluemoon
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The weight of 'The Truth'

Postby bluemoon » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:45 pm

Free wrote:

As instructed by their guru: "In conducting the affairs of an organisation at any level, Truth is necessary. But the only point of assuring Truth flowing freely is the starting point, the top man. If he follows Truth in Its totality, every level will learn to appreciate Truth and act accordingly. Even if they did not act accordingly, when they would come face to face with the man who follows Truth they would not be able to conceal, for it would become obvious out of their own mouths. So it is entirely up to one single man to stick to the Truth."


It's taken some time for the significance of this to sink in.

What a weight on the shoulders of DL.

Compassion does rise in me.
Last edited by bluemoon on Wed May 23, 2012 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
SES London, 1990-2009, Female

Jo-Anne Morgan
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby Jo-Anne Morgan » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:52 am

Regarding Free's comment about how the SES agenda is subtly pushed and people are unwittingly moulded, I thought I could post my experience of that:

1) Suppression of debate - I've had that old chestnut humiliation, where they put you down with ridicule when you offer a dissenting opinion. I also got 'Well it isn't useful to continue this discussion', I also got the line that my negativity was affecting the rest of the group. When I started coming home from group nights seething with anger, I knew it was time to leave though I did continue going for a while because I'd grown so fond of it.

2) By establishing a foundation in the early weeks of confidence in their material i.e. by presenting completely new ideas which do in fact work, later on you do question yourself and wonder whether in fact they are not right about everything. After all they have given you these life-changing techniques so surely they must know what they're talking about. When they tell you that your dissenting opinions are 'just ideas' which you need to drop this is quite powerful especially if everyone else seems to be going along with it. Oh and what about this notion that you don't actually need any training in anything practical e.g. decorating, hanging wallpaper. You just need to 'fall still' and the knowledge of how to do it will arise. Being cynical, you could argue that's just another way of keeping people in a state of thinking they're not good enough or 'not doing it right' and need to try harder by attending yet more work sessions/residentials etc. Taking this idea of the knowledge arising to its logical conclusion, surely in that case no-one ever needs any special training in anything. To perform brain surgery, for example, you just need to 'fall still'. Somehow, I'm not sure I would trust the technique and if it came to it, I don't think they would either!

Tootsie
Posts: 151
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Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby Tootsie » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:28 am

Hi Jo-Anne

Enjoyed your post about 'just ideas' and suppression of debate as we have all have the same experiences as you. I got so fed up about this, that on some group nights I gave observations that were completely made up but followed the party line. At the end of term the tutor came up to me with a list of my observations and said how pleased he was with me and the progress I was making. OK it was naughty of me to do this but maybe its better to do this than to go home from group like you 'seething with anger'! Oh and by the way the tutor eventually left school and we had a coffee one day and I told him about my observations and he just laughed.

Jo-Anne Morgan
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:23 pm

Re: Bridge over troubled water....

Postby Jo-Anne Morgan » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:05 pm

I got so fed up about this, that on some group nights I gave observations that were completely made up but followed the party line. At the end of term the tutor came up to me with a list of my observations and said how pleased he was with me and the progress I was making.
Haha. I like it. Why didn't I think of that?!


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