The Melbourne School

Discussion of the SES' satellite schools in Australia and New Zealand.
Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:51 pm

chittani wrote:So the suggestion would be to arrange a meeting between some of the complainants and a select group of their ex-schoolmates, just to see what could be done. From what I have seen, there is a wide agreement between both groups already as to the changes that need to take place. If both groups could satisfy themselves as to the bona fides of the other, then I think everyone here would agree that a resolution would not be too distant.

What does anyone think?

So the victims of abuse are supposed to attend a meeting with members or supporters of the very cult that abused them in the first place? Please correct me if I'm wrong but, prior to the Townend Report, ex-pupils who have gone on to teach at St James were hardly vocal in calling for the schools to face up to their role in the criminal assault of children. Are we to believe they've all suddenly been converted to the cause of truth?

Here's my suggestion for a speedy resolution: The SES should stop playing games and start taking Matthew's open letter seriously. The SES (in the person of Lambie), the St James Governors, Debenham and the relevant current and former teachers, etc. should publicly apologise for abusing children, sanctioning the abuse of children or ignoring the abuse of children, as the case may be.

Simple, quick and cheap.

Tom

Free
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Postby Free » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:42 pm

<delete>
Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Tom Grubb
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Re: Step by step?

Postby Tom Grubb » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:34 pm

Free wrote:
Tom Grubb wrote:Are we to believe they've all suddenly been converted to the cause of truth?

Well, maybe. Why reject the idea out of hand? Isn't one of the points of this BB to change hearts and minds?

Indeed. I don't reject chittani's idea out of hand - I'm just very sceptical about it. When dealing with the SES I find it pays to be very sceptical...

Free wrote:
Tom Grubb wrote:Here's my suggestion for a speedy resolution: The SES should stop playing games and start taking Matthew's open letter seriously. The SES (in the person of Lambie), the St James Governors, Debenham and the relevant current and former teachers, etc. should publicly apologise for abusing children, sanctioning the abuse of children or ignoring the abuse of children, as the case may be.

Simple, quick and cheap.

But clearly not where SES et al are going, at least not in the near future.

So what's the point of this proposed meeting then?

Is it about improving things at the current St James (which the SES says is a wonderful, happy, successful place anyway)? If so, that's great but why should the SES now want to hear the opinions of people they've smeared as "hardened activists" and accused of trying to destroy the schools?

Is it about moving towards a proper reconciliation and resolution? If so, that's also great (and I certainly don't want to stand in the way of any progress in that direction) but it does seem almost incredible that Lambie and the top-level cult members are going to be swayed by people further down the hierarchy and those of us dwelling in the outer darkness.

But perhaps I'm being cynical? What do others think?

ross nolan
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reconcilliation suggestion etc

Postby ross nolan » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:31 pm

Tom Grubb et al, from afar it seems there is a curious bipolar characteristic to the discussion about the SES and it's influence on the St James school -- it oscillates between 'they are mongrels constantly abusing children , let's take legal action ...' to ' that's all in the past, forgive and forget , have a cuppa and a quiet talk together' -- if you truly believe the abuse continues and is severe (I do) then you can hardly proceed as if nothing untoward was going on and it is all a mere misunderstanding that can be resolved by amicable discussion.

By being given the benefit of the doubt cults like this one are able to continue to create harm and recruit new members seemingly with
impunity -- the ultimate outcome of such 'benign neglect' to really investigate complaints and apply the sanctions of the law are things like Jim Jones "Peoples Temple" movement mass suicide , Waco and the ongoing poison of Scientology and other similarly tolerated toxic cults.

Surely enough independent testimony has been accumulated to demand some sort of outside action against this cult ?

I can report one small win with the president of the Royal Society in Melbourne having become aware of the religious,cultish and decidely strange practices of the SOP in the Society's head office building and his having been astonished and indeed outraged to have found this to have been going on under their noses. (he 'checked' on what they were doing and came across a chanting and meditating class , pix of the 'guru' etc and promptly decided this was not 'as advertised' or deserving of the imprimatur of the Royal Society .)

Stick to your guns and work to get the cult brought into the open for what it is and save those children who are not in a position to free themselves -- this sort of thing must be put in the hands of responsible MPs (govt and opposition) who can kick the arses of the complacent beauracrats .

Incidentally I think your "99.9 average" batsman was the great Sir Donald Bradman -- went out for a duck on his swansong match.
Skeptic

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Stanton
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Postby Stanton » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:47 pm

Why not take the opportunity to meet? Life doesn't always give second chances, sometimes it just carries on without you.

daska
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Postby daska » Mon May 01, 2006 4:55 pm

So the suggestion would be to arrange a meeting between some of the complainants and a select group of their ex-schoolmates, just to see what could be done. From what I have seen, there is a wide agreement between both groups already as to the changes that need to take place. If both groups could satisfy themselves as to the bona fides of the other, then I think everyone here would agree that a resolution would not be too distant.


Why not take the opportunity to meet? Life doesn't always give second chances, sometimes it just carries on without you.


Firstly because the people who are allegedly making the moves haven't made the moves here even though they have allegedly been radicalised by this board. Smell fishy anyone...?

Secondly because the open suggestion of this has come from someone who is not an ex StVJ who says he's taking his ball away cos he doesn't want to play any more... so who's to know whether this is just a nurnenurnenurnur moment as a parting shot.

Thirdly because the private suggestion of this has come from someone who is not ex STVJ and who's judgement I do not entirely trust. A question of wisdom rather than earnestness.

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Stanton
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Postby Stanton » Tue May 02, 2006 8:56 am

Chittani has put a ball into play and you can either let it dribble into the undergrowth while stamping feet in the pavilion - or do something with it.

OK, it's risky, but life's like that.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Tue May 02, 2006 10:24 am

Stanton wrote:Chittani has put a ball into play and you can either let it dribble into the undergrowth while stamping feet in the pavilion - or do something with it.

OK, it's risky, but life's like that.


So stanton, you say chit, who has said he is taking 'his ball and going home" (was there a mention of a bat?) YOU now say has put a ball (which ball? the one he took home?) 'into play".

YOu now accuse posters of allowing this ball (whichever it is) to "dribble into the undergrowth".

But who IS chit to offer such a ball in the first place?

Can anyone who is a current SES member offer this ball? Can Bella offer this ball?

I think not.

Perhaps rather than a stooge (Oxford definition) offering this ball, how about the ball's owner offering this ball?

And what's all this about the only a 'select' number of people being invited to the game?
Relatives with long-term involvement in the SES / SOP/ SoEP

daska
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Postby daska » Tue May 02, 2006 10:24 am

If the suggestion is genuine then I'm sure the people said to be involved will make themselves known, otherwise they'll stay silent.

In the meantime I'll fulfil my existing commitments which need my time and energy and which will positively benefit my family.

Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Tue May 02, 2006 3:38 pm

Yes, why all the cloak and dagger stuff? These people who apparently want to meet could just post an invitation on this forum.

leon
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Postby leon » Wed May 03, 2006 9:34 am

Stanton wrote:Chittani has put a ball into play and you can either let it dribble into the undergrowth while stamping feet in the pavilion - or do something with it.

OK, it's risky, but life's like that.


I thought Chittani wasn't playing anymore?

leon
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Postby leon » Wed May 03, 2006 10:33 am

chittani wrote:
The central principle of Advaita philosophy is "non-duality" - not seeing oneself as separate. Setting oneself apart because one has a superior philosophy of non-dualism might seem mad, but it's also very understandable. We all want to think of ourselves as special in some way, and members of the School or St James staff are no different from everyone else in that.


This may be one of the keys as to why SES can be so damaging, as the idea of being personally unique and special is rejected. When teaching (admittedly just playing a musical instrument) I get best results from exploiting and developing each of my students "specialness" and "uniqueness". Teaching branches of Hindu metaphysics to young children as their personality is developing and growing is irresponsible and I believe damaging, especially when the actual staff subject knowledge is amateur level at best. Being special, unique and individual is of course anathema to any body that wants to control people, it's also not useful if you want to enslave an entire strata of the population as the caste system in India did.

The concept that everything is one is really an ego gratification, meglomaina with different spelling. You are everything, you love your neighbor because he is you. So no concept of true self sacrifice here, it is actually selfishness taken to the final degree.
The more rigoursly this kind of teaching is followed, the greater the stress and mental damage inflicted as one constantly fails to live up to impossible ideals. Adding guilt and sexual control gives a good recipie for a cult environment. In it's early days SES caused such havoc as there was greater zeal and urgency, perhaps now the teaching and methods have become watered down, the violence and manipulation has lessened somewhat. However ideas are powerful and underpinning your school with Tantra and forms of Advaita is a asking for trouble. Regarding the girls school, I would suggest the girls are more controlled than the boys, and thus the grades are higher. This would reflect the gender make up of SES, woman obedient and worthy, men doing their own thing. I agree the exam marks are superb, however the results in the 70's were relatively high also, while staff were punching kids in the head, knocking them out cold.

Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Wed May 03, 2006 6:58 pm

Superb post Leon. IMO, accurate and insightful.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Mon May 08, 2006 12:07 pm

Just back on the primary schools in au (and cross-posted in another thread)

I have recently learnt that some kids spend a lot of their time in detention. They have no idea why they are in detention, to them it is just something they have to do.

They are questioned while in detention and their answers are recorded on audio tape. At their next detention nothing is said to them, they are merely played the recordings from previous detention sessions to listen to.

The kids have NO idea what it means or why they are there.

This is junior primary (ie - under 9 years old).
Last edited by a different guest on Mon May 08, 2006 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Relatives with long-term involvement in the SES / SOP/ SoEP

sugarloaf
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Postby sugarloaf » Mon May 08, 2006 7:44 pm

I find it deeply disturbing to hear that adults are treating very young children like that. Its reminiscent of the phsychological games they used to play when I was at st james - which had an incredibly negative effect. sadly - it really seems nothing has changed.


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