The Melbourne School

Discussion of the SES' satellite schools in Australia and New Zealand.
sly_gryphon
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Postby sly_gryphon » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:56 am

a different guest wrote:Thank you sly - a nice bit of net-searching/fact finding there. And welcome to the board. Can I ask where your interest in this board stems from?


Most directly, I came across this board whilst researching a school for my son. I came across John Colet (Sydney, Australia) via the NSW Gifted and Talented web site and was impressed with their wider range of subjects, smaller size, impressive academic results, and the availability of information on their policies.

After an unsuccessful stint in the local government school, it was recommended by a evaluating psychologist, and as we had looked at it before decided to try it out.

It probably would have gone no further, except for my own personal interest in comparative religion, along with reasonable research skills leading to sites such as this.

Forewarned is forearmed against the more extreme elements (of anything), so I owe thanks to this board for information on the chequered past of the SOP (although I have no particular objection to Eastern religion of philosophy, at least no more than to Western). I also offer my sympathy to those affected by St James in England, and hope they find some closure in the ongoing reconcilliation process (which is quite adequately discussed on other threads).

a different guest wrote:You also have to consider how low the standard is for these tests.


Well it doesn't matter what the standard is, as I was comparing the relative state average scores vs John Colet.

By definition the standard is that approx 75% of the state score in the top 3 bands, with 20% of students in the very top.

BST scores are quite difficult to find, as the Dept of Education is not allowed to publish comparisons, and there is a lot of pressure against doing so by the tteachers union (including previous bans on school reports).

Some other schools I found on the Internet, for the top 3 bands: Kings (the 'top' = most expensive private school) 95-98%, International Grammar School (this was the first choice for sending our son to, but didn't get in) 95-96%, Knox (another private school) 97-99%, St Kierans (Catholic school in nearby suburb) 87-100%.

In other words, the high scores compared to the state are mostly likely a combination of the schools socio-economic location plus possibly a bias in the students -- the school has become known in the gifted and talented community, being mentioned on their web site and with the headmaster having the GERRIC G&T certificate, etc.

Whilst there is probably not a statistically significant difference between John Colet's 100% and the above results, suggesting that they are 'behind' would be completely counter to the available statistics.

There are simply too many variables for it to be anything but a guide (even without bringing in any conspiracy theories about the results), but is an indicator.

a different guest wrote:And keep in mind that all but one of the teachers are ONLY 'dip eds'. Maybe OK for high school, but hardly ideal for a primary school to be staffed almost entirely by teachers who only have a 1 year diploma under their belt.


I think this last statement is a little misleading as it could imply the 1 year diploma is the only tertiary education they have.

In fact, they don't have "only a 1 year diploma", then have a complete tertiary degree (many of them with Hons, the headmaster having done a law degree) and then an additional one year diploma on top of that.

Its also hard to compare with other schools, as the information on teacher qualifications is usually not as accessible as John Colet.

Again, its a complex issue as teacher competence is not strongly correlated with teaching courses and more dominated by factors such as experience, knowledge of the subjects and verbal skills. (http://www.cis.org.au/IssueAnalysis/ia64/IA64.pdf -- acknowledging it is from a libertarian leaning).

For someone who already has an undergraduate or honors degree, I would question whether an additional full degree (say 3 years) would necessarily, by itself, make them a better teacher than the one year diploma plus 2 years experience.


I also agree with Bonsai that more schools (and not just SES ones) should be open in publishing their policies, staff qualifications and results. Perhaps if things had of been more open at St James, things would have turned out differently.


- Sly

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Postby bonsai » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:03 pm

sly_gryphon wrote:Forewarned is forearmed against the more extreme elements (of anything), so I owe thanks to this board for information on the chequered past of the SOP (although I have no particular objection to Eastern religion of philosophy, at least no more than to Western).


Do we take it from this that you have decided not to send your son their?

sly_gryphon wrote:I also agree with Bonsai that more schools (and not just SES ones) should be open in publishing their policies, staff qualifications and results. Perhaps if things had of been more open at St James, things would have turned out differently.


Saddly I doubt that things would have been that different in St James London had they published their policies, results and staff qualifications. This is mainly because at the time of the worst abuses occurring the majority of pupils were from SES families, where their parents were themselves deeply engrossed in the organisation.

However today St James is not comprised mainly of SES children and St James must respect the public more.

Bonsai

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Postby Goblinboy » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:05 am

sly_gryphon wrote: I think this last statement is a little misleading as it could imply the 1 year diploma is the only tertiary education they have.

In fact, they don't have "only a 1 year diploma", then have a complete tertiary degree (many of them with Hons, the headmaster having done a law degree) and then an additional one year diploma on top of that.

Its also hard to compare with other schools, as the information on teacher qualifications is usually not as accessible as John Colet.

Again, its a complex issue as teacher competence is not strongly correlated with teaching courses and more dominated by factors such as experience, knowledge of the subjects and verbal skills. (http://www.cis.org.au/IssueAnalysis/ia64/IA64.pdf -- acknowledging it is from a libertarian leaning).

For someone who already has an undergraduate or honors degree, I would question whether an additional full degree (say 3 years) would necessarily, by itself, make them a better teacher than the one year diploma plus 2 years experience.


Dunno about last statement Sly. I agree with what I suspect is your underlying premise - that training plus experience = competence, however I think it's fair to say that an entry-level teacher with a three-year vocational degree in education will be better equipped (and have more classroom experience) than a teacher with a degree plus what amounts to nine months of teacher training in the dip ed, all other things being equal. This observation is based on discussions with a number recently qualified teachers in the Australian secondary system.

Moreover, experience alone counts for little - one may have twenty years experience in teaching and simply repeat the same bad habits (extreme example, but it's to illustrate the point that experience alone doesn't equate to competence). Experience becomes valuable if the school has adequate means of providing feedback to the teacher on his or her performance, development opportunities AND the teacher is willing to learn.

Are you a member of the School of Philosophy, Sly? if not, would be interested in your thoughts on the "Creed" of the Colet School in the page that bonsai linked to. I wonder what non-SOP people make of it.

Cheers,

GB

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Postby a different guest » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:32 am

sly wrote
In other words, the high scores compared to the state are mostly likely a combination of the schools socio-economic location plus possibly a bias in the students -- the school has become known in the gifted and talented community, being mentioned on their web site


Not merely "possibly" - nothing like a couple of G&T kids in the appropriate year (particularly in such a small school) to bump up one's "averages".

Sorry to sound a cynic, but the HM is known to be very savvy (and no doubt many of those BSC's in his staffs have experience with stats) - so attracting even a mere handful of G&T kids is going to make the school look v.v. good. I would suggest that attracting G&T kids is a deliberate strategy.

The experience of the surrounding state schools (which have accomodated kids who have left JC) is that they ARE behind. Evidence from parents on this forum (who took their kids out of SES run schools) is the same.

And a correction to GB re teaching qualifications - to be a teacher is a 4 year course not 3. A primary school full of 1 year dip eds is not just unusual, it is unheard of! . And the problem with teachers not being fully trained (and not having fully trained co-workers to get help from) could be exacerbated by the SES schools having the 1 teacher for a class's entire primary school experience.

I note that many of the dip ed teachers have their first degree as a BA in Sanskrit :roll:
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Postby sly_gryphon » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:05 pm

Answers to specific questions.

bonsai wrote:Do we take it from this that you have decided not to send your son their [sic]?


Perhaps my post was not clear, but by "decided to try it out", I meant that we are sending him there.

GoblinBoy wrote:Are you a member of the School of Philosophy, Sly?


No. Although I enjoy philosophy in general, I doubt their particular beliefs would work well with me (I'm more likely to be motivated by Ayn Rand).

In fact I had never heard of them until looking into a school for my son two years ago, and then more recently when looking to switch schools. I think it might be interesting to take some of their philosophy classes, especially if they concentrate on Eastern philosophy (usually emphasis is placed on western philosophy).

GoblinBoy wrote:if not, would be interested in your thoughts on the "Creed"


Did you mean this creed:

Leon MacLaren wrote:We are a tribe of philosophers, theologians, magicians, scientists, artists, clowns and similar maniacs who are intrigued with Eris, Goddess of Confusion, and her doings.


Well, I find it no more unusual than say the following for a Christian school (http://www.ics.nsw.edu.au/general_infor ... _creed.asp -- found by searching the web).

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight. Proverbs 9:10.

...

CONFESSING CHRIST AS KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS, THE REDEEMER AND REDEEMER OF ALL OUR LIFE, WE PURSUE THE EDUCATIONAL TASK TOGETHER, WITH CONFIDENT HOPE AND HUMBLE RELIANCE ON GOD WHO, FOR JESUS' SAKE, SENDS HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD US INTO THE TRUTH, WHICH IS CHRIST, AND WITH GLAD SUBMISSION TO GOD'S WORD AS THE GUIDE OF ALL OUR ENDEAVOUR THAT IN ALL THINGS GOD MAY BE GLORIFIED THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, WHOSE IS THE GLORY AND THE DOMINION FOR EVER AND EVER. AMEN


And I'm sure that, as strange as the above looks to me, it would appear even more strange to someone from a different culture (such as Indian).

Of course, if the Christian mythology does happen to be correct, then the Lord really is the source of wisdom, and the earth was created intact a mere 6,000 years ago.

a different guest wrote:Not merely "possibly" - nothing like a couple of G&T kids in the appropriate year (particularly in such a small school) to bump up one's "averages".


When, technically it wasn't the _average_ the results were showing, it was the range (and distribution).

Simply put, last year (2005), John Colet school had _no_ students in bands 1, 2, or 3 for year 5; their lowest student was in band 4 (out of 6). Similarly, in year 3, their lowest student was in band 3 (out of 5) and they had no students in bands 1 or 2.

Deliberately catering towards G&T students (e.g. GERRIC training, flexible teaching, wider range of subjects) by itself may weigh the distribution to the top, but would not affect the range (specifically the lower range), unless you are suggesting some peer benefit by being associated with talented students. (In which case any school would be envious of that position).

Of course with a relatively small sample, having no students in the lower band is probably not statistically significant (without actually doing a statistical test), especially if the lower students were the ones that left (which is consistent with them being 'behind').

Different children may have different learning styles, or they simply may not be compatible with certain teachers -- if this is the case, I hope that for the students that left a change in environment would lead them to improving their performance.

I suppose it is a partial truism (because there are many other reasons to move) that students that are doing well would be more likely to stay where they are, whereas those with problems (like my son) are the ones that will be dissatisfied with where they are and move, trying to find a solution that works. (Just a guess, no actual figures to back this up.)

You know, the grass is greener type of thing.

I will certainly be keeping an eye on the developments on this board, as well as regularly scanning the 'net for information on JC school and teachers (amazing what you can find with the right searches). [BTW. I can only see one with a Sanskrit degree, and geez there is a lot of Aussies on here :-) ]

I also wish the best of luck to those seeking reconciliation in England.

- Sly
Last edited by sly_gryphon on Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bonsai » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:24 pm

sly_gryphon wrote:
bonsai wrote:Are you a member of the School of Philosophy, Sly?


bonsai wrote:if not, would be interested in your thoughts on the "Creed"




The above questions are incorrectly attributed to me. I think Goblinboy asked them.

However the creed to which the question refers is the John Collet School Creed, which can be found at http://johncolet.nsw.edu.au/manage/file ... _creed.doc and forms one of the many policy and approach documents published by the school which can be found on http://johncolet.nsw.edu.au/policies.php

John Colet School Creed wrote:JOHN COLET SCHOOL
SCHOOL CREED

We are here to learn about God, Man, the Universe and our relationship to them; by which means we may fulfill our bond to remember the Creator, to obey the fine regulations of the creation and to find our way back to the Absolute.


This creed was the central theme to our education at St James in London, though you will find no reference to it in any literature issued by the the school. This (as far as I can tell Religious Belief) has very little to do with providing an standard of education necessary for children to grow into good upstanding citizens and to be able to function in Society. It is also a theist belief system and certainly at St James London there was not much tolerance for the agnostics, skeptics let alone atheists amongst us.

This creed forms the basis of the foundation group ceremony when the SES tries to recruit you properly into their folds. As far as I know no member of the ordinary public joing the SES (or its SOP variants) will ever be offered or asked to go through such a ceremony.

Bonsai

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Postby sly_gryphon » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:18 pm

The above questions are incorrectly attributed to me. I think Goblinboy asked them.


My bad. Too many cut and paste.

bonsai wrote:This (as far as I can tell Religious Belief) has very little to do with providing an standard of education necessary for children to grow into good upstanding citizens and to be able to function in Society. It is also a theist belief system and certainly at St James London there was not much tolerance for the agnostics, skeptics let alone atheists amongst us.


Well, if you assume that their religious beliefs are true (and with no real way to disprove them), then it's correct.

Similarly, if you assume that Christian beliefs are true, then schools should be teaching that the earth was created, intact, some time within the last 10,000 years.

Further quoting from the page above I referenced (the "..." referred to several pages of waffle):

H. The Special Task Of The School
WE CONFESS that true education is the preparation and equipment of the child for his office and calling as God's image bearer and steward in this world.

That a school where Christ is confessed as Head of the educational task in harmony with the Scripture is a valid, but not only expression of the life of the Covenant community redeemed in Christ.

That it is the special task of the school to lead the child to discern the meaning and structure of the creation under the guidance of the Word of God and to train the child in the use and development of his God given talents, so that he may be equipped to serve Christ as King in all spheres of life to the Glory of God and the well being of his fellow men.

That the school, under Christ and by His Holy Spirit, is to advance the reign of Christ on earth in accordance with its special task so that His Kingdom may come to expression here and now, though with much imperfection and weakness, and so that our Lord may find us busy in His garden when He comes in glory.


Personally, I think a balance is best.

[Quotes fixed - Daffy]

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Postby a different guest » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:34 pm

sly wrote
Well, if you assume that their religious beliefs are true (and with no real way to disprove them), then it's correct.


The thing is sly, the SOP/SES/SoES claim most vehmently they are NOT a 'religion'.

If you can share, what issues have arisen with your son that you are looking to withdraw him?
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Postby bonsai » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:17 am

sly_gryphon wrote:Well, if you assume that their religious beliefs are true (and with no real way to disprove them), then it's correct.


Is it really morally acceptable to teach as "Truth" a belief which is neither provable or falsifiable?

This in a nutshell is the my objection to the education system promoted by St James and its clones around the world.

I have no problems with education exposing children to belief systems but these should not be promoted as the truth or the only truth. Nor should these beliefs systems be forced on anyone as they were for us at St James.

Bonsai

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Postby sly_gryphon » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:47 pm

a different guest wrote:If you can share, what issues have arisen with your son that you are looking to withdraw him?


Without going into too much detail, my son is both gifted and has some associated behaviour problems.

The school was not dealing well with them, and did not seem at all to be addressing his strengths.

For example, the teacher appeared offended when I suggested that the books he was reading were too easy (he was alread in the top group in his class) and could he have some from the next level up; when I insisted she got annoyed because it meant she had to go to another classroom to get them.

He is now reading comfortably, well above his age.

We also had problems with the new principal this year, who seemed less competent (poor writing skills) and enjoyed bullying us. For example, on many occassions that we met he went on at length how skilled he was in restraining people (in response to our 6 year old son's behaviour problems) and that he had easily restrained older boys larger than myself (I am quite large).

I'm sure this is an admirable achievement -- maybe for a wrestler -- but not the type of qualities I'm looking for in a headmaster.

As I said, the grass is always greener -- if things are going well people are unlikely to change schools; when it doesn't work out, however, is when people change.

(Hence receiving schools will always get the worst stories about other schools.)

P.S. This seems to be getting rather off topic :-)

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Postby sly_gryphon » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:31 pm

a different guest wrote:The thing is sly, the SOP/SES/SoES claim most vehmently they are NOT a 'religion'.


Philosophy, religion -- difficult to define the difference.

Western philosophy in generally regarded as separate from religion, particularly the dominent Abrahamic religions, although questions such as whether God exists would still generally fall under its banner. (Note that this was not so much the case during earlier eras, e.g. Greek philosophy).

In other cultures, however, the distinction is a lot less clear.

Technically the base study of Dharma, reincarnation, Karma, etc, trying to determine the epistimology and metaphysics of the universe, can be categorised as a philosophy. So Vedanta is usually considered a school of Hindu philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_philosophy).

In contrast, the Hindu religion, would be more concerned with the worship of various Hindu gods and associated rituals. In this regard, being pantheistic, there is a underlying philosophical basis for the universe, on top of which deities exist. (Similar to philosophy in Plato's time, where the Greek gods existed within the universe.)

This relationship between philosophy and religion is quite different from the distinction western people make. (Hindu philosophy's universalism also allows it to incorporate Christianity and other major religions).

On balance, I would probably classify what I have seen so far as "a philosophy with a very well developed metaphysical component".

bonsai wrote:This in a nutshell is the my objection to the education system promoted by St James and its clones around the world.

I have no problems with education exposing children to belief systems but these should not be promoted as the truth or the only truth.


I suspect St James is not exactly the pre-eminent school that teaches a belief system.

Whilst I would love such an education system, where the only religious education is General Religious Education (to use the local legal term), I think we should be a little realistic that the entire private school system (most being Catholic, other Christian, or otherwise religious based) is not going to disappear overnight.

In the end I suppose I do respect the right for others to choose such schools if they wish.

One thing that I do disagree with, however, is when Government schools, which by law should not favour any particular religion, in fact do. For example, having a school prayer referencing "God", having an "Easter hat parade", or a "Christmas pageant".

Now, that's something that I disagree with -- where the choice has been specifically made for a non-religious education, yet elements of religion are introduced.

bonsai wrote:Nor should these beliefs systems be forced on anyone


That's getting pretty deep.

Do you mean that parent's do not have the right to educate their children in their religion of choice? Or that one should never use physical force to coerce any behaviour?

Isn't even forcing someone to not take a religion, itself a choice for aetheism.

What about a belief that "people with jobs should give money to poor people who don't"? Doesn't the democratic collective enforce that belief through a government with power to physically detain you if you don't pay tax? (See, I told you I read Ayn Rand. Destroy all guns.)

Besides, where can I find a school that teaches Discordianism, even if I didn't want to send my kids there? And why does 2 + 3 = 5.

bonsai wrote:Is it really morally acceptable to teach as "Truth" a belief which is neither provable or falsifiable?


Fnord.

What, such as mathematics?

Godel's incompleteness theorem shows that the artithmetic axioms leads to statements that can neither be proved nor disproved.

i.e. Teaching maths is, in effect, teaching a Godel sentence (derivable from the maths just taught).

Anyway, morally acceptable in what frame of ethics?

For example, Peter Singer could probably construct plenty of example situations where utilitarianism ethics would lead you to conclude that teaching an unprovable truth is the right thing to do.

Taking another tact -- I believe it is wrong to steal, and would like to teach my children that... but how does one _prove_ it is wrong to steal?

It's starting to sound like you all are more interested in philosophy than you make out to be.

- Sly

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Postby a different guest » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:03 am

sly wrote
Without going into too much detail, my son is both gifted and has some associated behaviour problems.

The school was not dealing well with them, and did not seem at all to be addressing his strengths.


Firstly - this is not going 'off topic' at all - similar things with kids in the primary schools have been discussed before - even, I beleive, in this particular thread. In fact I think it was in this thread that I mentioned a child forced out of an SES run school into the local state system (so perhaps not an SES parent) because of some minor behavioural issues which the school couldn't deal with (or didn't want to).

There was also the issue of my own relative's child, who was being bullied and the school was totally ineffectual (did nothing). Perhaps being bullied is considered 'character building' in the SES? Or it is the child's own karmic fault for errors in a previous life? (as this is their belief re disabilities).

Regarding the Headmasters ability to wrestle kids to the ground - note the many references on JC's web site to the "potters wheel" and "love and discipline" and then see what ex-students here have to say about those notions.

As to 'philosophy' and 'religion' being separate in Western society - we are in a western society, so when I look at what the SES teachers and expects of their members, to me it is very much a religion - and a quite secretive religion too! Even though the primary schools are now admitting a link with the SES (a recent development for the majority, JC tho did always have one link buried well deep in the site), a non SES person would still not be enlightened as to what exactly the group beleive it. They are certainly not linking prospective parents to sites such as this which are critical of the SES.

I hope you find/have found a good school for your son. Have you considered the state system in a school with an OC class?

And a hypothetical question - given their beleif system regarding women/girls, and you had not had the bad experience with your son, would you have sent a daughter there?
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Postby bonsai » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:27 pm

sly_gryphon wrote:It's starting to sound like you all are more interested in philosophy than you make out to be.


I am interested in philosophy. It's a shame that the SES/SOP (or whatever alias it chooses to go under) isn't.

Bonsai

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Postby sly_gryphon » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:32 am

a different guest wrote:I hope you find/have found a good school for your son.


Thanks for the unexpected well wishes -- I hope that John Colet works out for him as well; its only been a couple of weeks, and they seem to be a better match so far.

(Appreciated too, as you were initially coming across a bit negative -- it seems you were suggesting I would do not better with the staff at John Colet than at my son's previous school).


a different guest wrote:Have you considered the state system in a school with an OC class?


OC classes, as far as I know, are only 5-6th grade; my son is only in 1st grade. I don't think we will want to go back to a state school after all the bad experiences described above.

a different guest wrote:And a hypothetical question - given their beleif [sic] system regarding women/girls, and you had not had the bad experience with your son, would you have sent a daughter there?


Questions are probably better than hypothetical questions. (i.e. I don't have a daughter, although if I did, how do I factor out the circumstance of already having one child already in a school making it likely I would send my other children there as well. There are simply too many variables as to what a person might have done.)

Removing the hypothetical parts I presume you are asking if I "think John Colet school would be appropriate for girls, given their particular philsophical/religious attitude to women?"

The different factors in answering this would be the following:

First, I am not particularly familiar with the finer details of their beliefs, but presume them to be largely Hindu-based, possibly mixed with Christianity, therefore (as reported on this board) biased in favour of males.

Some specifics I am aware of -- they prefer separate boy/girl classes in the younger years if possible (for lower 1st they don't have equal numbers, so it is one boys + one mixed class), have separate sports streams by gender (girls do dance), have different uniforms and some of their courtesy guidelines include the chivalric "ladies first" (which some may consider dated).

Second, my own personal beliefs on gender -- I suppose this could be summed up as "different but equal". Their are clear differences between male and female, ranging from physical through to chemical (including chemicals that affect brain function, i.e. thoughts). Despite this, I still complain about discrimination at McDonalds when they say "boy or girl" toy.

Third would be the relative choices available. Abrahamic religions aren't exactly very friendly to women (being essentially male-based). I would hope that at a government school things would be more balanced. (But then why at my son's previous school were the majority of teachers female, yet the headmaster male???)

For example, whilst there may be government schools that include pants in girl uniforms, are there any that allow skirts/tunics for boys?

Given all these, my answer would be that John Colet would be fine for girls, at least no better or worse than many other schools, but to be aware of possible religious attitudes (the same I would say of most other Catholic, Christian, etc schools).

In other words, if I had a daughter that I thought would do well in an academic and spiritual based school, John Colet would certainly be on my list. (and ahead of Christian-based schools).

- Sly

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Postby a different guest » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:06 am

Thanks for the unexpected well wishes


actually, my bad, I thought you had removed your son. That being said, I certainly DO wish him well in his new school.

OC classes, as far as I know, are only 5-6th grade; my son is only in 1st grade.


That is true, and the classes are filled from kids from schools in the surrounding school district who sit the test and get in. However as the school already has an OC class, then maybe the junior school classes would deal better with a G&T kid.


I am not particularly familiar with the finer details of their beliefs


Yes, and it's the 'finer' details that are so worrying. For a start you might like to read the student testimonials on the JC site (girls 10 years old) about how wonderful it was to have the special lessons in 'obeying'. Also, see if you can source a copy of The Secret Cult. And while I (as a female) don't like their ideas on gender and wouldn't want my daughter indocrinated to beleive such stuff, I wouldn't want my son to be indoctrinated in it either.


(But then why at my son's previous school were the majority of teachers female, yet the headmaster male???)


You seem like an intelligent person - how about you work it out . It's not rocket science. :)

I note at JC the only 2 males on staff are the HM and Deputy HM.

For example, whilst there may be government schools that include pants in girl uniforms, are there any that allow skirts/tunics for boys?


Now you're being silly :crazyeyes:

Now, how about finding JC's Gender Equity policy for us. :D
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