Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Discussion of the SES' satellite schools in Australia and New Zealand.
actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby actuallythere » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:18 am

Ella.M.C. wrote:anyone in Sydney from the school is free to call in and listen to the recording.


Can't someone get hold of an audio file and email it to people? One could then upload it onto the internet, for example onto Youtube.

Also Daffy may know how to host audio files here.

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:26 am

Hello actuallythere,

A link or similar will be provided to the audio and or documents.
How this is to be done has not been discussed as yet.

I myself am unsure as to how this will be done ..computer things are not my area.
Last edited by Ella.M.C. on Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

actuallythere
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:05 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby actuallythere » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:35 am

Ella,

Excellent. Thank you.

Unique
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:30 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Unique » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:26 pm

Ella.M.C. wrote:INITIATION IN SFSK

I am astonished .. at myself, and everyone else currently in Nina M's school ..
That no one checks anything for themselves as to the validity of things and the practises
happening there.
Granted that anyone, anywhere, can go to a class in any suburb and learn so called meditation.
Obviously beneficial in relieving stress by quietening the mind etc,etc.
But the meditation that the school offers is promised as something very special indeed ..
We, myself included accepted and totally believed without question all that was told about
our 'special meditation'.
Has anyone enquired about who is authorised to give such a special 'Diksha' or 'initiation'
into a lineage of such a Holy Tradition?
What a fool I was ...
along with many other fools!
Ella.M.C.


I would imagine many students will ask why anyone would do what the Mavros did. One can only say that they always considered themselves to be above everyone else and in their arrogance , they thought their actions were acceptable. The most important thing for the Ms was to get the right mantra  from the right source for themselves. As for the students, it was good enough for them to take whatever the Ms gave them! 

They knew they had to offer some sort of meditation, so there was no other option but to do as they did if they were to maintain their power and control. The only other options were to be honest and advise people to repeat RAM or a similar deity-mantra (but that would be same as what they did in the SOP and they didn't want that), or to offer people the option to see HH and be initiated. Of course doing this would entail the Ms loosing any superiority over the students - something they definitely didn't want to happen.  

How is it that HH didn't do anything about it? 
Well, he stated to them other things they were doing wrong, such as preventing students from seeing him, but they took no notice of it. He also asked them to translate and publish for everybody's use all the teaching he gave them.They never did, notwithstanding the excuses they conjured up. The teaching was not given for their own exclusive use or for only some of it to be squeezed in between MacLaren 's or Blavatsky's lines and given to the "special" people in their "special"school .

He also wouldn't probe into what was going on in their school unless he was directly asked about a specific matter - so if they never asked him to give them permission to initiate (or about which mantra to give to students), he wouldn't  comment on it (which suited them very well!)

And, they thought, no one will ever find out...

Middle Way
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:46 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Middle Way » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:47 am

Thanks to Ella.M.C. and Unique for posting the truth here. How it will be received overall amongst the current SFSK students is anybody's guess perhaps. I hope it helps resolve the ambivalence about staying there in the minds of anybody with the ears to hear it.

MW

ManOnTheStreet
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby ManOnTheStreet » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:31 am

Unique wrote:How is it that HH didn't do anything about it? 


A small point about this:

Until very recently, our only source of information regarding the words and actions of HH was the Mavros. Even if he did say something regarding their actions in the School, there was no way we would've found out anyway because the Mavros could hardly be expected to tell us something that would completely undermine their authority. It was not in their interest to tell us what HH actually said to them. The unfortunate thing is that we really had no idea about what HH said to them for 20 years.

Now we know in no uncertain terms. When HH said the mantram given to students in the School was wrong, there is very little room for 'interpretation'. Wrong simply means wrong. Trying to engage in some sort of mental contortion in order to make it mean anything else just leads to absurdity. If wrong doesn't mean wrong, then nothing HH says is clear at all. Yet it was Mrs Mavro herself that told us that HH speaks directly and unambiguously. So too the initiation ceremony. When HH said that the initiation ceremony was just a copy of Maharishi's ceremony (with 2 pages missing) there's really no other way to interpret this other than to give it its obvious meaning. What else could he have meant exactly? That it wasn't a copy? When he said he had not considered giving anyone authority to initiate, did he actually mean he had considered it? Obviously not.

MOTS

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:30 am

Middle Way,

Thanks for your encouraging words.
It is because we, would like to be told by others .. if they had found out these things first ..
That we feel obliged to speak.
By saying nothing, it is if we didn't care for others.
Now whether they have ears to hear is not our concern.
MM used to say.. 'never wake a sleeping dog'

MOTS ..

Thank you for your very clear post ..
There certainly is no room for interpretation, when the answers to VERY CLEAR and DIRECT questions,
were answered in exactly the same manner.

There is no mistake.
Anyone who tries to find some 'illogical reasoning' in their mind .. to justify not accepting the obvious,
is either totally delusional, or the brainwashing has stopped any normal discrimination process.

Of course though .. it is a shock and when you hear it, you do not want to accept ..
Because ..
It disturbs your so called 'world' or 'life' .. and of course ..we like to feel secure and have our comfort.
(Comfort zone in school speak!)
Maybe one should question that cosy world, especially when you cannot think for yourself or use
rational thinking any longer ..

And MOTS on the 'initiation ceremony' ..
It is of course too, only a ritual ceremony for the worship of Deities .. it has nothing whatsover to do
with Diksha.

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:45 am

Middle Way wrote: How it will be received overall amongst the current SFSK students is anybody's guess perhaps.

MW


Yes a good point MW ..

Possibly many people are so happy with the 'club type' atmoshere ..
Such nice people and nice material about spiritual things, leading to a feeling of
doing and being something worthwhile in life.
There are lovely church groups around also ..

They may even be able to delude themselves that to be deceived on the most important aspect
of their spiritual life .. is ok!!

But for myself and others .. this is most certainly not ok.
We put our total trust and faith in these two people ..
Put up with so much nonsense over the years, believing that ..
The bottom line was we were under the umbrella, and had a direct connection,
and an authentic mantra from a truly special Holy Man.
We were deceived ...

ManOnTheStreet
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby ManOnTheStreet » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:31 pm

Ella.M.C. wrote:And MOTS on the 'initiation ceremony' ..
It is of course too, only a ritual ceremony for the worship of Deities .. it has nothing whatsover to do
with Diksha.


Yes. One thing that occurred to me was the following:

I remember Mr and Mrs M always telling me that the last thought in your mind when you die was the most important thought you'll ever have. They said that I should repeat the mantram at this time to ensure a good embodiment "next time around" and so on. No doubt many of you remember statements of a similar vein.

In light of the above information, if you believe the teaching, this means that Mr and Mrs M were quite happy to have us all repeating complete nonsense in our heads during our last moments (if we were lucky enough to know we were at that stage of our lives). They were happy to rob us even of our last moments in this world. I can't even imagine the kind of callousness required to do that to people supposedly in your 'care'.

It's a disturbing thought.

MOTS

Ahamty2
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:03 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ahamty2 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:42 am

What saddens me most about this thread on the SFSK is how Michael and Nina Mavro were able to do exactly what they did in the Sydney SOP for another 25 years. Only this time completely unfettered by the constraints of the SES leadership under Leon McLaren in spite of the SES in London saying that all the Schools are autonomous
Fortunately, we are a very free country, relatively, ‘down under’ in spite of our colonialist past, so the Mavros are free to do so. However, some of the responsibility must rest with those members of the Sydney SOP who followed them and helped them start up the SFSK.
Did their egos deceive them into thinking they would be more important in the SFSK under the Mavros, when in fact they were only being used by them for their own end. They were initiated into the SES and Study Society chain under HH Shantanand Saraswati.
I will know each and every one of them because of my position in the Sydney SOP. I remember very clearly to this day my confrontation with Michael Mavro and I warned him way back then about his behaviour. I also remember very well, being criticized, chastised and ostracized by my fellow members of the so called ‘top group’ thereafter. Those same members then stood up in Kent Street two years later to do exactly what I had done before them.
The Mavros' behaviour in the Sydney SOP was exposed in the English and Australian media as well as in "Secret Cult" long before McLaren came back from NZ to oust him.

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:53 pm

Ahamty2 wrote:However, some of the responsibility must rest with those members of the Sydney SOP who followed them and helped them start up the SFSK.
Did their egos deceive them into thinking they would be more important in the SFSK under the Mavros, when in fact they were only being used by them for their own end. They were initiated into the SES and Study Society chain under HH Shantanand Saraswati.
I will know each and every one of them because of my position in the Sydney SOP. I remember very clearly to this day my confrontation with Michael Mavro and I warned him way back then about his behaviour. I also remember very well, being criticized, chastised and ostracized by my fellow members of the so called ‘top group’ thereafter. Those same members then stood up in Kent Street two years later to do exactly what I had done before them.
The Mavros' behaviour in the Sydney SOP was exposed in the English and Australian media as well as in "Secret Cult" long before McLaren came back from NZ to oust him.


Hello Ahamty,
Thank you for your thoughtful and honest post.

I presume (from years of this teaching!) that ultimately we are all responsible for all our actions.

And whether such members 'egos deceived them into thinking they would be more important' ..
That is an assumption that could very well be true, or again it may not.
Only the people in that position could answer it .. and only by being truly honest with themselves.

And hyperthetically then if it were true, I feel empathy .. and certainly no criticism toward them.
We are all tested in many varied ways during our lifetimes.
'Therefore but by the grace of God go I..'

Also in this 'hyperthetical' along with the 'importance' .. could/would be also, the love of this teaching,
which was fired in them by Mr Mavro himself.
As apart from all his very apparent faults ..Mr Mavro was a genuine seeker (in the beginning at least)
and did inspire us all by his obvious love of spiritual truths.

I especially noted your points here in relation to how I personally feel about some of my peers who I still
regard as 'good friends'.

Those whom I do not envy .. as their 'test' in this situation is very difficult.
They are those in the 'special' positions' of 'being very important' ..
Only because Mrs Mavro herself has cultivated this in them.

Not because they are super special, or more advanced spiritual beings ..
But simply because they were easy to manipulate.

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:07 am

Ahamty2 wrote:I will know each and every one of them because of my position in the Sydney SOP. I remember very clearly to this day my confrontation with Michael Mavro and I warned him way back then about his behaviour. I also remember very well, being criticized, chastised and ostracized by my fellow members of the so called ‘top group’ thereafter. Those same members then stood up in Kent Street two years later to do exactly what I had done before them.
The Mavros' behaviour in the Sydney SOP was exposed in the English and Australian media as well as in "Secret Cult" long before McLaren came back from NZ to oust him.


This too Ahamty has much meaning for me ..

In around 2004-2005, some people in SFSK became aware of the facts that Michael and Nina Mavro were
deceiving the school members in the most important way ..
That there was no authority to initiate and that the mantra was not genuine.

The handful that 'heard', walked away ..
Only to be 'criticized, chastised and ostracized' by others in the school.

For whatever reason it must not have been time for us to 'hear' .. wakeup or
whatever one chooses to call it.
I am very grateful that for whatever reason ..
This time around ..I can hear.

Ahamty2
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:03 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ahamty2 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:34 am

Thank you Ella.M.C. for your comments and they are respected.
In fact all comments on this forum should be respected as they are the individuals’ experiences within these organizations. Sometimes they do get personal and volatile and I have been a receiver and even a giver in this aspect. I have been on this forum for quite a while now, albeit, under another user name when it was part of the “whyaretheydead” website. We used to have members of the SES contribute with some volatility, I suspect the way the SES operates, a worldwide edict has gone out from DL et al that no members of the SES are to contribute to this site as “you are giving your substance to the dark side of the force!” and they will take your subtle energy for themselves. But, they still read it though!
Ella.M.C. we are all responsible in some way for the evolvement of these organizations whether intentional or not by just going to them and dare I say it, ‘giving them our substance’. I remember in January, 1967 when the Sydney SOP opened its doors for the first time at Wilmot Street Sydney and the first branch of the SES in Australia began with MM and NM and a few others who had attended to SES in London. The M’s were sincere and softer then and as the SOP grew very humbly at first the M’s grew with it. But sometime later a dramatic change took place within the SOP and MM changed for the worse.
The Wellington NZ branch of the SES under its leader with almost all its members broke with Leon McLaren’s SES in London completely. The news was broken to the ‘top group’ at its Friday’s group night. MM language was such that it could only be described as totally occult warning us never to challenge his leadership, that all the Wellington School had turned its back on the truth and are now damned for the rest of their lives, the eternal fires stuff. You had to be present to appreciate what the atmosphere was like that evening. MM and NM were no longer the couple of old.

But let us all have a reality check here. The SES/SOP/SFSK are not churches or a religion, ie they do not advertise themselves as such. They are selling a product, a course for which you are charged and pay a fee. What do you get for that fee? You give your services free of charge to these organizations and after 25 years what have you received for your money! You are expected to give your services free 24/7 and dedicate your lives in the service of truth and the absolute and for what? So you can call yourself a jnani; your diploma saying that you are now a qualified jnani yogi.
A life devoid of any love for your fellow man or woman; where is the compassion in these organizations? Everything is a result of peoples’ sanskaras that they are starving and suffering, living in poverty, wars etc
Since these so called Schools follow the Hindu tradition what does Chapt 10 Sloka 8 say in the Bhagavad Gita:
“Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate: Iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava samanvitah”-‘I am the origin of all; from Me everything evolves-thus thinking, the wise worship Me with loving consciousness.’
If you see everything in this world as a result of peoples sanskaras , as maya; how can you worship/serve the atman/brahman (Me) in each other with loving consciousness. You are really the living dead while still in this world. The meditation will then make you a slave to your ego instead of freeing you from it. It is a double edge sword. Where is the loving kindness in this.

Jo-Anne Morgan
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:23 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Jo-Anne Morgan » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:56 pm

So you can call yourself a jnani; your diploma saying that you are now a qualified jnani yogi.


You are right Ahamty2. It is Jnana Yoga that the SES is trying to use.

It is dangerous, it is unsuitable even for monks and ascetics, it is definitely unsuitable for householders. It is too dry and barren. It is not Advaita Vedanta. Advaita Vedanta is not a religion, it is a study of Man in depth, it is an understanding of the ultimate truth. It comes out of Sanatana Dharma, (what we call Hinduism) which is the eternal and everlasting way of life. This Jnana Yoga that you are learning about is feeding the ego. The ego self is growing stronger which must devour all you have, without love and compassion you are lost in this dry desert of knowledge which is useless. So leave!

My statement above is a paraphrase of something I was told by a previous poster on the Board. He received it from someone he highly respected in the field. SES/SFSK are best left alone. There is no love and compassion there.

Middle Way
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:46 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Middle Way » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:26 pm

In respect of there being no love or compassion in SFSK, I would reiterate MOTS’s equation that “SFSK=Mrs Mavro”. But there is love and compassion in SFSK amongst and between many of the students and it is leaving that love and compassion which makes it so hard to leave the school. And this is harder the more the student has come under the delusion that only SFSK provides the good company needed to further one’s “spiritual journey”.

MW


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