Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Discussion of the SES' satellite schools in Australia and New Zealand.
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morrigan
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:06 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby morrigan » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:01 am

Rejoice in Jesus! Give him praise! (what I wrote) And "Jai! Jai! Jai!" has people raisin their hands up to "praise".

Mayray leyay ayah Mayray leyay Jeyah! He came for me, He died for me.

Meray leyay Issu na du cootaya! He took upon himself my sorrows/burdens.

I can't remember any more...

snapper
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:51 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby snapper » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:56 am

When Mr and Mrs Mavro formed The School for Self Knowledge they took on the responsibility of the spiritual
wellbeing of all who became associated with the school. They fulfilled this obligation in a trustworthy and patient
manner. Looking back on the years that i was a student,there were only two occasions of disharmony that i saw
and both cases were caused by intolerance of students.
i cherish the time spent with Mr and Mrs Mavro and the school which played ( and always will ) an important part
in my development in becoming a far better human being and also opening my eyes to the spiritual world that
we are all part of.
The amount of time and effort given to us by Mr and Mrs Mavro for little financial or any other reward shows the
excellence of their character which cannot be sullied by a the poisonous remarks,based on heresay by a few
intolerant people in an frenzied self serving witch hunt out of the darkness of their own minds.
i remember that the first thing Mr Mavro said to us when we joined the school, was not to beleive anything he
told us until we had experienced it for ourselves, and to be very careful what we came to believe was the truth.
When i left the school for family and health reasons the split was amicable to both parties,and i no longer live
in Australia.

Regards and love to all who still beleive.

snapper

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:28 pm

Welcome to you Snapper,

I respect your opinion on Michael & Nina Mavro and their school, and this obviously is
the 'view' that you saw and trusted.
I agree with your comment that the school plays a part in making us better human beings and
can open your eyes to start to see the spiritual life.
And maybe by staying just a few terms, it could serve that.

Others including myself who have been in the school from its beginning and have been in
very close contact with the Mavros .. and in varied circumstances with them, including
holidays have seen a view that indeed paints a far different picture than the one you saw.

No one here, I believe, is on a 'frenzied self serving witch hunt' ..
For most of us here the thing that kept us in school all those years ..putting up with,
and excusing atrocious and unacceptable behaviour from our 'leaders' was the fact that
WE BELIEVED WE WERE DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE HOLY TRADITION under,
His Holiness Shankaracharya Swami Swarupananda Saraswati Maharaj.

We were told REPEATEDLY that this could only come through me (Mr Mavro) .. and with his charismatic
and strong personality we believed him.
We were given a mantra and told it was the most special thing we could have in our life and if we told
it to another then for them it would be like saying 'fish & chips' as that person did not have it given to them directly from MM who was given it directly from the source (HH).

Well now we know WITHOUT DOUBT that this is not so ..
We might as well have meditated on 'fish & chips' ourselves all these years.
Mr and Mrs Mavro strongly discouraged anyone who dared enquire or ask about seeing
HH for themselves, in fact they made you feel so bad for even asking .. it was just your ego asking.
For years we did not even know his name, and then told not to tell younger students his name.
These things ..and MANY more were done to keep control and power over the students and the belief that M & N Mavro were special people.

The fact is that HH has told them repeatedly that all students are welcome to visit him ..
He is a Jagat Guru, a World Guru for all, he does not belong to Nina and Michael nor SFSK.
They are only 2 of his many disciples, of both western and Eastern origin.

Your comment "for little financial or any other reward shows the excellence of their character' ..
is with due respect a superficial one.
This is how it appears at first to all of us, but this is not so.
Subtle rewards such as power and control, students catering to their personal whims,
and there are money aspects .. stories there also.
"Excellence of character" would mean to me to care for your fellow human beings and there are things
witnessed in the not too distant past, and happening now to people that show, no regard,
extreme selfishness, or lack of care.

So in summing up, it is the deceit on a spiritual level that is important to us.
This is why we came and stayed at school, and now finally we know the truth ..
FROM THE SOURCE.
This is the big issue here, SFSK is not mean't to be a school for making you a nicer person..

Tootsie
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:37 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Tootsie » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:24 am

Welcome snapper and your contribution is most appreciated to the discussion. As most people on this forum have a negative opinion about the Mavros including myself. My opinion was not gained by listening to hearsay as you suggest but by direct experience of the Mavros in such places as the refurbishment of the School building at Kent Street and also the activities that went on at Mount Wilson. May I ask snapper if you ever did any hard physical work while you were in the SFSK? Maybe the second line building cleaning is as far as you got. Anyway I wish you all the best on whatever spiritual path you are now following.

Tootsie
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:37 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Tootsie » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:36 am

Maybe I'm sounding a bit like the Four Yorkshire men in the Monty Python sketch but school was really tough in the olden days! LOL

snapper
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:51 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby snapper » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:14 am

to ella and tootsie,
thank you for your reply.
i have no interest in continuing this discussion .
please look at the first thing i wrote, if you give it your full consideration you may find that Mr Mavro
was right.

snapper

Dr.Alan
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Dr.Alan » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:18 am

SES MEDITATION SYSTEM
From reading some comments on various posts, there may be some of you who are not sure about the meditation taught to you at SES. If this has arisen from anything I have posted, then I apologise for that.

So if you are either still at SES or are otherwise still practising meditation, then be assured that the meditation taught is OK. The mantra given by H.H. Shantanand Saraswati to SES, SoM and SSNP was an ancient traditional one used for householders (i.e. not monks or renunciates). It represents an incarnation who Himself was a householder (i.e. He married a princess). So through that sound there is a link to deeper places within the human psyche.

There is no need to doubt that continuation with the mantra given by either SES, SoM or SSNP is not a valid approach to meditation according to the tradition of Advaita Vedanta.
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

Leonie
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:00 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Leonie » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 pm

I'm sure I may have missed something but which organisation is SSNP?

Snapper wrote:

i have no interest in continuing this discussion .


This is quite a common response from those that refuse to acknowledge any of the issues, to the reasoned arguments presented on this forum.

Don't forget the article that Tootsie put up about the Mavro's under the topic: 'Newspaper Articles'

Leonie

Dr.Alan
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Dr.Alan » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:58 pm

Leonie

SSNP is the Society for the Study of Normal Psychology in London UK - started by P.D. Ouspensky. They also follow Vedanta and the same meditation system. They meet sometimes at HQ in London but mainly in members own houses. Hence no premises costs. There are no duties requested of anyone. No fees are charged. It is not a cult like organisation in any way. It has always been like that. It is, however, the organisation from which Leon MacLaren started with. So you see - all these SES problems stem from MacLaren, not the teaching or the meditation. If you had been brought up as a child in the severe Calvinistic atmosphere of Scotland, you might not have any empathy either. And you might also think that sever discipline is the only way to live life. This is what made MacLaren what he was. He thought it was quite normal - we all know different of course.

I hope you did not misunderstand the purpose of my last post on this stream. It was in no way the intention to give any support to the way SES run their schools. It was only to confirm that the meditation system taught by H.H. Shantanand Saraswati was OK. This was for those who may have doubts and still benefit from its practice.

I take your point about Tootsie's newspaper articles post. I expect I would have held a similar view to the article by Tim published in the newspaper, as it was 1974 when I left SES and they were then much like that article describes.

However,in the 1970's, following a series of exposures to the media in the UK, including the newspapers, the books, and the Social services dealing with children and family break-ups, I know SES has changed.

This I know to be true as I joined again in 1989 with my daughter, who was 18 at the time. She wanted to know what it was all about, because my wife and I were often in fits of laughter when we remembered some of the ridiculous situations we had been in the 1960's at SES. My daughter and I joined in 1989 under my mother's maiden name at a local class on the outer fringe of London. We stayed about 1 year only. But by that time my daughter became really interested in Vedanta. She studies it with us every week until the present.

If you also look at the newspaper articles stream and read Gabriel's post - it is clear that SES has change. Though they still have a long way to go not be thought of as a cult like organisation.
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

Leonie
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:00 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Leonie » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:11 pm

Hi Dr Alan,

I think there is a bit of a muddle! I asked who SSNP are - thanks for your clarification, now I know.

But I'm not sure if this quote below is addressed to snapper? I'm not snapper and never have been in the SFSK which is the organisaiton to which he/she refers.

Dr Alan wrote:

So you see - all these SES problems stem from MacLaren, not the teaching or the meditation. If you had been brought up as a child in the severe Calvinistic atmosphere of Scotland, you might not have any empathy either. And you might also think that sever discipline is the only way to live life. This is what made MacLaren what he was. He thought it was quite normal - we all know different of course.



Re: what you say about the SES in the post above - I am familiar with the SES over the period I was there - 1990 to 2009 - London.

With best wishes, Leonie

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:11 am

Hello Leonie,

I am pleased you asked Dr Alan who SSNP was, as I too did not know of them.
And I am very grateful for all of Dr Alan's illuminating posts,
they are wonderful and he seems to be in a very fortunate position in life.
So thank you Dr Alan ..

What Dr Alan has said in regard to the mantra given to SES and SOP was confirmed to us
by the Shankaracharya Swami Swarupanand on the visit made last September.
That mantra is good and can be used by students from SFSK is they would like.
It is the 'special' mantra given to SFSK which is not valid .. this was also advised at the time of the visit.
Last edited by Ella.M.C. on Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Ella.M.C. » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:28 am

Hello Snapper,

Giving my full consideration (which is not perfect of course!) to your
first words of your post ..

I am wondering if you are suffering a little 'sentimentality' there ..

Again from my post I said, it does appear at first that they care ..and possibly they do and
they tried their very best ..
(giving them the benefit of doubt of any intentional wrongdoing in the beginning)

But 'ignorance is no excuse of the law' as Mr M often said.
Just because they originally mean't well, and that one of them is no longer with us and the other elderly,
we may feel sad for that situation, but it does not mean that everything is ok, as it is not.

We were deliberately mislead in a very important part of our lives, and for many years.
They put unnecessary fear into us.
Again this was not a pottery course or something ..

'Sentimentality' was frowned upon in school ..

I wish you all the best Snapper with your health and spiritual future.

Babs
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:52 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Babs » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:46 am

snapper wrote: The amount of time and effort given to us by Mr and Mrs Mavro for little financial or any other reward shows the
excellence of their character which cannot be sullied by a the poisonous remarks,based on heresay by a few
intolerant people in an frenzied self serving witch hunt out of the darkness of their own minds.
snapper


I note the instructions given by the Sydney Morning Herald for would-be letter writers: "Keep it civil. Don't abuse people. However strongly you feel about your point, extreme language and wild analogies are unlikely to make it more effectively. We tend to follow the old rule that the first person to mention the Nazis has lost the argument."

Snapper, it's great that you found your time at the SFSK rewarding, as did I for a number of years, but your summing up of the intent of the comments posted on this website is misconceived and uncivil. People who have had direct (not indirect and therefore "hearsay") experience of the Mavros, the SFSK, the SES and SOP and other like organisations, are posting here in a civil attempt to honestly share their experiences, observations and insights and attempt to find some answers to experiences which have ultimately been troubling and difficult for them.

Earlgrey
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:47 pm

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Earlgrey » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:13 pm

Middle Way wrote:Hello Earlgrey. You may recall from my previous posts that I work as a psychologist in Canberra. If it would be helpful to you, I would be more than happy to have a talk with you over the phone. If this might help, you could send me a PM.

Hi Middle Way,
I have sent you a PM. (At least I think it went)
Earlgrey

Middle Way
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:46 am

Re: Sydney School for Self Knowledge

Postby Middle Way » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:48 am

It did come through Earlgrey, and I've replied to you.

All the best


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