SFSK Devotee

Discussion of the SES' satellite schools in Australia and New Zealand.
enlightened
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:38 am

SFSK Devotee

Postby enlightened » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:54 am

I am a current member of the SFSK, have been for the past ten years. I spend a total of 3 & 1/2 hours at the school, I dont have to live there and no-one is forcing me to do anything against my will, so it is not a cult.The school has reduced in size and Mrs Mavro has mellowed and made some positive changes, it is definetely not as strict and severe as it once was. There has been references to a tutor that left the school at the beginning of 2012, and as a consequence influenced quite a few students to do the same.The tutor in question was my tutor for 7 years, and as I had always suspected, his arrogance, pride and huge ego eventually led to his downfall, and testimony to this was the despicable way in which he attempted to discredit the school.

Dr.Alan
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:15 pm
Location: UK

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Dr.Alan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:06 am

To the person who put up the post previous to this one. (i.e. I do not want to call you by the name you have used) It would appear from what you say that the name you have used is the worst misnoma that has ever been used on this forum. So you should know that most forum members will simply see this as another way that SES hypocrisy works. Read the last post put up by StillatSES - who will not be for much longer.
SES - London 1964-1974 left due to SES interference with private life.

woodgreen
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby woodgreen » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:35 pm

To quote Van Morrison - Enlightenment, don't know what it is. But I do hope you are happy at SFSK and good to hear things are improving. Slow progress is still progress. I doubt your comments about the tutor who left will go down very well on this Forum ( they haven't with me) but in the spirit of debate, as you mentioned the c-word, I found this article from the Human Givens Institute very interesting, and well-balanced. SFSK may or may not be a cult, but I suspect it has fully morphed into a new religious movement.
http://www.hgi.org.uk/archive/cults.htm


woodgreen
Ex-SES Member. (Member for 3 years in late nineties).

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Ella.M.C. » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:09 pm

enlightened wrote:I am a current member of the SFSK, have been for the past ten years. I spend a total of 3 & 1/2 hours at the school, I dont have to live there and no-one is forcing me to do anything against my will, so it is not a cult.The school has reduced in size and Mrs Mavro has mellowed and made some positive changes, it is definetely not as strict and severe as it once was. There has been references to a tutor that left the school at the beginning of 2012, and as a consequence influenced quite a few students to do the same.The tutor in question was my tutor for 7 years, and as I had always suspected, his arrogance, pride and huge ego eventually led to his downfall, and testimony to this was the despicable way in which he attempted to discredit the school.


Hello 'enlightened' ..
Yes of course no-one is forcing you to do anything against your will,
I think though that you do not see the subtle aspects of Mrs Mavros manipulations, and how they work.
Maybe in another 10 years you will.
I suggest that you do not really know Mrs Mavro but are content with what you want to see.
Of course she is not so strict and has mellowed because she wants to keep her school.

The 'references' to the senior tutor that left in early 2012 ..
were hardly just references .. Nina Mavro outrightly lied about his departure.
This I know personally from my conversation with her.
It suits Mrs M to deflect the attention away from the real issue and blame others.
She is the one who should answer for her actions.
If she cared about students welfare she would have called senior students herself and explained
why things were correct.
The fact is that she cannot ..

These lies they have carried for years .. I personally spoke to Mr Mavro about this mantra issue
in around 1996, after receiving severe abuse from Mrs M after 'daring to question her' on what I had heard.
I will never forget the look of guilt on his face as he said these words or very similar
"I don't think there is anything wrong with the mantra'.
And even more crazy was my blind acceptance at the time ..
I wanted to believe them.
But finally one hears it directly from the source ..HH, and you realise that the first
lot of students that left over this issue in around 1994 were telling the truth.

And you say it is not a cult ..
I was told by Nina Mavro that if I ever spoke to these students again ..
I would be out of school .. the she added 'what would become of you then?'
How I felt after that ..
it makes me now see how much subtle fear they put
you under.. and it is Himsa ..violence, the opposite of what we were taught! (in the Yamas & Niyamas)
The unspoken school rule of never speaking to those that have left is very cult like.
HH called the school 'cultish' in one of his talks to us.
Why do they strongly discourage anyone from visiting the Jagadguru?
Do they own him? I don't think so. Something to hide?


This same tutor has done NOTHING to discredit the school ..
he does not write on these forums.
His only 'crime' was to tell senior students the truth about the mantra that was told directly
from HH.
This was decided by all of the senior tutors/students that had left as only right and proper,
that everyone should know the truth that we had been deceived, as we would want to know.

I suggest that the students that left as a consequence of hearing these truths that came from HH,
did so using their own discrimination ..
This aspect is the crux of what the school represented ..
direct connection with HH through an authentic mantra.

It is not mean't to be a social club ..

Middle Way
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:46 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Middle Way » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:57 am

Hello enlightened.
enlightened wrote:Mrs Mavro has mellowed and made some positive changes, it is definetely not as strict and severe as it once was.

While this is good to hear, please excuse a little healthy scepticism. Could you provide more information about what the changes are and why you think they are positive, to help lessen that scepticism?

enlightened
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:38 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby enlightened » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:57 am

Ella M C: You sound like an incredibly bitter and naive woman.You talk about "blind acceptance", but now you have blindly accepted what this tutor has told you. I am not sure what would motivate someone to orchestrate a "plan" to try and discredit an organisation, but perhaps he is bitter as well and trying to get revenge, thats hardly spiritual. How can you be so certain that he has consulted with the genuine HH and has understood what he was told and accurately translated the information??

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Ella.M.C. » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:24 am

enlightened wrote:Ella M C: You sound like an incredibly bitter and naive woman.You talk about "blind acceptance", but now you have blindly accepted what this tutor has told you. I am not sure what would motivate someone to orchestrate a "plan" to try and discredit an organisation, but perhaps he is bitter as well and trying to get revenge, thats hardly spiritual. How can you be so certain that he has consulted with the genuine HH and has understood what he was told and accurately translated the information??


Dear 'enlightened' ..

I can assure you I am not a bitter woman .. I may even be a man!
I feel extremely happy that I am free of the manipulations of Mrs Mavro after over 20 years
of their regime.

You seem very similar to "nick' who seemed to parrot things that have come from Mrs Mavro or her deputies.
Saying such a comment as you did ..
'I am not sure what would motivate someone to orchestrate a 'plan' to try and discredit an organisation"..
Is extremely incorrect and totally ludicrous.
NO ONE HAS DONE THAT.
A spiritual school should be transparent and honest not secretive as SFSK is.


I do not think you have read all the posts here or you would not make such ill informed
statements as you have.

I nor anyone else has BLINDLY ACCEPTED what this tutor has said ..
I along with others sat in the presence of HH and heard with my own ears ..
How we were mislead and that the mantra was wrong ..there is no mistake.
He told stories (some things were said in English also) with compassion letting us know we were
'fools'.
I narrated one in a much earlier post here.
Translation was done on the spot in front of HH who understands English very well ..
if what was translated was incorrect he would not have let it pass.
It was all very obvious, in the many audiences we were so graciously given.

bluegreen
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:42 pm

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby bluegreen » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:03 pm

Welcome to the forum Enlightened.
You will find friendly support here if you need it.
It might be an idea not to launch into insults of individuals though, without properly reading through all of their posts to get a bit of background. I, for example knew that Ella.M.C was not speaking from 'blind faith' but that he/she had witnessed what he/she was talking about with his/her own ears because I have read his/her entries in the past. If you would like to get to know a bit about a few of us and what we really think and represent, then it takes a little time but it's worth having a read through a few older posts.
St James Girls School 1977-1981

enlightened
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:38 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby enlightened » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:46 am

Ella M C , can you tell me who went to India because I am interested to know who did the translation.Mrs Mavoro comes back with tapes which are translated by a reliable source.Who is your source and how can you be sure that they have given a genuine and correct interpretation??...The idea that HH could refer to the students of SFSK as "fools" after all these years of meeting with the Mavoros sounds incredulous. Once again I am writing from my own experience and the Mrs Mavro that I know has always been kind and genuine,a bit old fashioned but I can live with that, I dont take everything she says as the truth, I can distance myself enough to decide whats right for me.I am also assertive and stand up for myslef and dont just do as Im told like a doormat.I had so much trouble with the senior tutor that left, and over the years he drove many people away.Even tho he knew the sanskrit off by heart and could do calligraphy standing on his head he did not have a good grasp of the material and found it really difficult to explain anything, in fact he would get livid when asked a question or challenged about anything, which to me showed great arrogance and pride.I hardly learnt aything with him, and I have no idea why I stayed, only that I beleived in the SFSK, and the saving grace was when we had Mr or Mrs M for a class and they would always make perfect sense to me, which encouraged me to keep going.In the end , given the amount of people had left in the classes he taught, I think Mrs M had no choice but to stop giving him classes to which he took great offence, hence his decision to leave.

Middle Way
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:46 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Middle Way » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:30 am

I am pleased that finally we have a post from someone in SFSK that doesn't rely mostly on insults and finger pointing. I look forward to reading the discussion on these important issues conducted in a similarly measured and non-emotive way, and hopefully with no more disparaging comments about individuals' egos.

Leonie
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:00 pm

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Leonie » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:19 am

I would just like to write in support of Ella for all the hard work she/he is doing to bring to light the issues in the SFSK, not only on this forum but in obtaining the tapes of what the Holy man has said about the organisation and the Mavros, which are still due to be presented on the forum at some point I understand.

Enlightened wrote:

Ella M C: You sound like an incredibly bitter and naive woman.


This is an incredibly nasty thing to say to a person, and I hope you will apologise. As others have said, you could go back and read all Ella's posts about the SFSK and then respond to all the information provided. Here is a link to some of the other discussions about SFSK:

http://www.ses-forums.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=763&start=135

Enlightened also wrote:

..... The tutor in question was my tutor for 7 years, and as I had always suspected, his arrogance, pride and huge ego eventually led to his downfall, ...


And yet you don't seem to see the irony of calling yourself 'Enlightened', whilst at the same time you point the finger at others for 'arrogance, pride and huge ego'.

With best wishes, Leonie

Ella.M.C.
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:12 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Ella.M.C. » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:09 am

Hello enlightened,

I totally understand your comments about how you perceive Mrs Mavro.
I too once felt exactly the same way. But unfortunately..
or really, FORTUNATELY .. I have seen a far different side.

The first time the issue of the mantra and Mr M's exclusivity with HH was questioned
was back in around 1992. I doubt if you knew but may have heard of an Indian couple
that belonged to the school.
They donated very, very generously to the school financially, and with love and labour.
This traditional system was their heritage.
The husband was invited to India (to translate) but was told his wife could not join them.
She was deemed too 'unquiet' to the M's.
In fact she was told she was not permitted to even visit HH who is head of the religious
order of her own country!
Now what arrogance is that .. to tell an Indian not to visit their own country and religious leader.

Now another strong personality came up against the personality of Mr & Mrs M ..
To cut it short, that is how it came about and these people who speak hindi found out
that what we had believed for in so long was in fact untrue.
Another very senior school couple left at this time because of this, plus a few others.
When I heard everything, I found it extremely hard to believe .
.I had put my trust in the M's for so long.
For years Mr M would hammer into us at residential that it was ONLY through him that we had this
mantra and that HH had only entrusted it to him ..no one else had that authority.
We could not even write HH's words down, unless they were dictated through Mr M.
(And how strange that now after his death an ordinary student can give such a precious thing as initiation ..
Does this fit with the tradition of Advaite Vedanta ..
I don't think so ..)

Back to my story ..
When I questioned Mrs M on this ( the validity of the mantra).. I was interrogated (abused) with
shouting, no control on her part, it was a very fearful time (at a residential in a small room alone).
She even said 'How dare they question us, after all the years we have gone to India" (they were
questioned by people in HH's camp in regards to money and other matters)
To me this was arrogant, why shouldn't they be questioned ..if there were questions to answer and
why would it worry you, if you had nothing to hide.
And in typical abuser style ..after being made that everything now was my fault, I was told not to talk
about it to any other student, and given a hug!
And a warning that if I ever spoke to the 'ex students' I would be expelled'.
I ask you is this spiritual behaviour? or even normal behaviour?
These other students plus the Indian couple have all been initiated personally by HH and follow him
directly they are his Shishyas/disciples or devotees.

This was another query that I had as we were led to believe that it was very special that Mr & Mrs M had
HH as their guru and in the beginning were told that no other white/european people had been able to do so.
This is completely untrue.
Anyone is free to see him ..
As you are no doubt aware Mrs M strongly discourages anyone that even hints at wanting to go.
He has in fact told her that any student is welcome to visit.
I believe her and Mr M not wanting students to visit ..is part of their way of controlling students.
And that is exactly what HH said about it also.

When HH said we were 'fools' it was said with much love and compassion ..he was so caring ..
remember he sees it as a 'play'.
He also commented that there was little spirituality in schools in the west.
The translation was done by this Indian lady that I spoke of ..she is devoted to HH and lives around half
of the year in India with him serving him.
I cannot impress on you enough that no way, could or would she change his words ..she was translating
as he spoke. He can speak and does understand English well.
He would have interupted and corrected her.
We even wrote him letters in English which he read.
We have also shown the tapes to other Hindi speaking people for clarification.

As for your comments on your past tutor ..
I think it is more of a personality thing, and remember we are all products of SFSK.
and he had many years of conditioning under Mr and Mrs Mavro.
On week long residentials I personally had my best experiences with this tutor who could, with his
presence allow you to fall deeply into yourself.
Far better is practise, than a well oiled machine explaining 'material'.
Remember that the copied/plagarised 'school material' is not Advaite Vedanta that HH follows.
Incorrect also is your comment that is why Mrs M stopped giving him classes ..
she had other agendas.

People come to the school it seems for varying reasons .. for most of us who left last year
it was because of the supposed connection 'under the umbrella' of a true holy man.
When you find that that was a sham .. you have been manipulated by the very people,
you had put your spiritual welfare in, what alternative is there .. but to leave?
That is why your tutor left ..no other fabricated reason that comes from Mrs M.

ManOnTheStreet
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby ManOnTheStreet » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Hello "enlightened" and welcome.

Some others have posted since I began to write this, so I apologise if it seems disjointed. Ella has summarised the main points very well, so the only things I can add to the comments above are the following:

1. You said:
enlightened wrote:Mrs Mavro has mellowed and made some positive changes, it is definetely not as strict and severe as it once was.

Is this not simply support for the notion that we all had good reasons for leaving?

2.
enlightened wrote:I spend a total of 3 & 1/2 hours at the school, I dont have to live there and no-one is forcing me to do anything against my will, so it is not a cult.

I think your definition of a cult is somewhat simplistic. I would refer you to the many other posts on this forum that describe in excellent detail what attributes you're likely to find in cults - the SFSK is possessed of many, if not all, of these. In any case, your statement begs the question - the whole issue is whether or not you do action X because it is your will or because Mrs Mavro told you to do X.

3. Your comments about the senior tutor that left seem profoundly misguided to me. It is my clear recollection that this person was almost universally respected at the School before his departure. You say that you always suspected his "arrogance, pride, and huge ego would lead to his downfall" - do you have any evidence for this assertion? Moreover, in what way did his departure represent his "downfall"? There is no evidence to suggest he has "fallen" anywhere at all.

It is my understanding that many students in the School remained there because this particular senior tutor also remained in the School. Given that he was the reason most of them stayed, it is only natural that they should leave after he did. I don't see how this represents him "influencing" them at all. What is certain is that in the past he influenced them to stay. All you have really managed to say is that he was influential - and to that extent I agree with you. I don't agree that this makes him arrogant, proud, or possessed of a huge ego.

4. This forum has accommodated many "devotees" in the past and no doubt will accommodate many more in the future. All I would ask is that you keep an open mind so that perhaps you might see that we are not devils and "haters", but rather just some reasonable people that no longer take everything Mrs Mavro says at face value. This forum has been a catalyst for many people to find their own path in life - it is my sincere hope that your experience here might bear the same fruit.

MOTS.

bluegreen
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:42 pm

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby bluegreen » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:39 pm

It seems that if Ella.M.C is making this lot up, then he/she has a very vivid imagination and has gone to a lot of trouble to fabricate details which can very easily be checked. I think that if 'enlightened' doesn't believe Ella.M.C then try questioning Mrs M in a similar way that Ella.M.C described and see what happens. Or if you can afford it, go to see HH yourself and see if he will see you. Let us know if you try it and what happened.
St James Girls School 1977-1981

Middle Way
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:46 am

Re: SFSK Devotee

Postby Middle Way » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:16 am

deleted
Last edited by Middle Way on Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.


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