EXPERIENCES AT ST. VEDAST (now St. James) AND THE S.E.S

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
james
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:37 pm

I feel that the key to being in the SES is having a thick skin and really deciding what YOU want to here and what you want to discard. The SES has given me some good times and some good material. However I think the amount of self-righteous stuff they preach, and expect you to believe unquestioningly is too much.
I may follow your advice Alban thanks.

User avatar
Sam Hyde
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:33 pm
Location: St James boys school
Contact:

Postby Sam Hyde » Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:12 am

Dear Alban and Jimbo,

James you had me in fookin stitches, when you were in the buggy, remember I was chasing you round the west field joy riding Lizzies car? Pulling off reverse 180's and tearing up the turff with uber sized doughnuts and wheel spins! I seem to remember it was a close shave as a result of my 'a'la Colin McRay style that caused the 8 of you on the 2 seater buggy to go careering straight into the remaining platform of the market tent, propelling all passengers abruptly out of their seats and onto the green grass. LMFAO!!!!! Then it was a case of LEG IT!!!!!!!!! and drunken attempts at fixing the axel at midnight under the cover of darkness! OMG what good times.

More seriously, in answer to Alban's question to James about why he joined the school. I joined for much the same reasons. There was some, I use my words carefully here, 'expectation' from ND and DL at the time for me to be joining as a result of my ?family connections?, an opinion that made me sooo anti, I promised never to join. But I thought, as my motto goes, 'don?t knock it till you've tried it' so I did. James, me, rob, ewan, Dave....all our close mates gave it a bash. We were a very free thinking bunch, no figurehead or tutor was going to tell us what to say, eat, drink, think or shag! As we joined we made a point of going into our first meeting with Lambie and giving him a real grilling! And boy how we did! You should have seen the look on his face! This continued until we were satisfied with the position we were in and the motives of the 'tutors'. Now that was about 2+years ago, since, my mates left when I dropped a year and I rapidly lost interest, that revealed my motives were not for enlightenment but maybe for head splitting hangovers and barfing sessions at 5am the following morning!
So as a result I have not attended group for a good 6 months, I don?t miss the philosophy, which at times was stimulating, but I do miss my mates. Hurry up and get back from down under boyo!!!

Sam xox
thats old now, like me, only 4 weeks to go!!!!!
"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education"

AntonR
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:32 am

Postby AntonR » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:46 am

Post deleted
Last edited by AntonR on Wed May 17, 2006 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Keir
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:04 am
Location: London

Postby Keir » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:14 am

Thankyou Celia for your powerful testimony.

I am glad if any person has avoided this kind of treatment, but I am heartily sick of the repetative posts saying that was then, it doesn't happen now, or even I didn't notice it.

This bulletin board is about general discussion on SES or SoES as it now calls itself. What I find disturbing is the way in which people are lambasted for spoiling the current St J school by doing just that. Discussing the SES. That their testimony is shocking is an inditement against an organisation that facilitated this behaviour, or at the very least harboured these abusers. I never once heard of a tutor being asked to leave for abusive behaviour throughout my 15 odd years in the SES.

This same organisation founded the current St James school. SES members governed it, taught in it, and the SES advised on it's running. Lo and behold, abuse happened there too. Again, was it because of the influence of the SES that there was abuse or was it due to thir influence that it didn't come to light and the abusers were left undisciplined? Well, maybe the next inquiry should be into the SES.

For those of you that claim that the school is a totally transformed entity, that the SES has nothing to do with it, or if it does it's all voluntary and a force for good, that its all transparent now etc. You cannot get away from the fact that there is an association people quite naturally draw between an organisation that either sanctioned or shielded abuse, who are involved in a school which either sanctioned or shielded abusers (who's present governors are still refusing to resign, and whose current staff members include a number of teachers that have been named in conjunction with abuse on this board), and who according to some testimony on this board are not (as they say they are) explicit about the link between the SES and St J to new parents.

You cannot simply erase the past, or the bad smell it casts over the present, by claiming it is different now. You cannot just say sorry about that and carry on as before and think that normal rational people will see that two and two make five.

That this past abuse has come to light only now is normal for emotional and physical abuse as there is usually a period of readjustment to reality outside the experience, comparison between the two, a growing sense of identity independent of the abuse and abusers, and then finally rebuilding confidence in their own right to challenge their abuser. There are threads that describe people's experiences of this process on this BB. To say with any confidence whether someone has been abused emotionally you would have to see how they turned out in 10 or more years, checked how they were about expressing emotion, or interracting with society of all sorts. Every unhappy child will develop coping mechanisms that can hide difficulties indefinately.

If you'd asked me when I left St J, I would have said it wasn't all that bad, the teachers were a bit loopy but I thought it was a fairly superior education to my peers. I didn't realise it then but I had anger problems, difficulty coping with confontation, I was arrogant, a snob, ill-informed and dismissive of counselling. My family didn't notice but people not in the SES did.

I am not alone. It is because we know about that struggle to reintegrate after a St James or St Vedast education (with its mixture of emotional suppression and physical abuse during the era of MacLaren leadership of SES and its snippets of heavily edited philosophy, and it's faith in it's own fitness to lead a new renaissance) that we 'smear' the current schools by discussing our misgivings openly amongst ourselves and anyone else that cares to join the discussion.

We are not bitter, messed up people intent on dragging the school through the mud. On the contrary, we care passionately about ensuring that current and future pupils dont have to go through the same sometimes painful integration after they have left the school that many of us have. To provide a different less uncritical view of the school we knew that didn't just talk about the good things, but took a good hard look at our experience for positives and negatives.

So, no I dont think I am being a radical, or disengenuous to the current school by talking about what I care about on the web in an appropriate place. If anyone read all the posts on this BB they would find a vibrant debate about the experience of SES and its relationship with St James and St Vedast schools throughout its history, less partizan than the press statements, and tube adverts, and more informative good and bad. That it has tended not to have too many posters from the SES or current pupils is simply not my fault.

What so many people who have posted say they notice in the SES is the keeness to stifle debate, brush things under the carpet, ignore what they dont like. If that is the bad old days why are we reading that discussion of this BB is discouraged in NY SES by senior tutors? That lack of openess and some intollerant and compassionless postings from current st j pupils is damaging the school more than anything that is written about my past experience.

james
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:33 am

Knowhere can I find postings by current St James pupils that are compassionless. We are backing you, in the case of St J, saying that the remaining governors should remove themselves from their positions, the teachers should give full, open apoligies and that the link between St J and SES should be open for all to see. The only thing that is bothering us is how some people, not all, are intent on proposing that the school is the same establishment it was 30 odd years ago. I know I am simply repeating my self in saying its not the same place.

Keir i did like one part of your post!
Quote
"What so many people who have posted say they notice in the SES is the keenes to stifle debate, brush things under the carpet, ignore what they dont like."
I couldn't agree more, even todays SES is guilty to this point. Even if it's not quiet as severe as it may have been 20 years ago. Part of the reason im going to leave (even if it is only for some time out to stand back from it all) is because of this very thing. They advetise that they offer griping debate and "dialogue" on philosophical "material" but in the end the only conclusion is what they told you in the first place!
Sam I know you would agree to the above!
So you can see where not really debateing very different things, we're just going about it in different ways.

Collect up your valuable things, it will be worth it in the end.

User avatar
Sam Hyde
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:33 pm
Location: St James boys school
Contact:

Postby Sam Hyde » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:12 pm

I Couldn?t agree more James and Kier, and Anton R, in regards to the brushing under the carpet idea of ignore it and it will go away....could this be the reason why it took so long for an investigation to be instigated? Who knows??????
I agree with the sanskara rubbish! I had once sat in a meeting with Lambie when basically he told us that disabled people or physically ill people did something bad/wrong/non-manu (who knows what he was thinking!!!) to result in this current state. I went MENTAL and had a real row with him in front of all the tutors and fellow pupils. Lets just say I showed him up to be a real wanker then. He then apologized to me in his 'suite'.....my mummy doesn?t have a suite!!! Lol oh I forgot, that?s because she?s a WOMAN! I agree the sexism still has its shit skids through the current S.E.S but only with the oldies. As they say....out with the old in with the new. :B-fly: :agrue:

Sam xox
thats old now, like me, only 4 weeks to go!!!!!

"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education"

nilsabm
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:31 pm

Postby nilsabm » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:08 pm

Hear Hear Keir

you don't know how seriously f*****d up you are until you come out of the social context you've grown up in.

If you have time, space and support to rectify the problems you're very lucky.

Personally I've never advocated trying to shut down the schools, they do some things very well (you can read my previous posts if you want to check this). But yes, in common with Keir I feel passionate about freeing them from the SES influence

Come on Sam, get the girls on here - or I'll start thinking that they don't have the same freedom to use the IT facilities that you lads obviously get...!

User avatar
Sam Hyde
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:33 pm
Location: St James boys school
Contact:

Postby Sam Hyde » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:13 pm

Come on Sam, get the girls on here - or I'll start thinking that they don't have the same freedom to use the IT facilities that you lads obviously get...!


Get a LIFE nilsabm, get out more its FRIDAY NIGHT! you don't seriously expect me to slave at this thing alll week day and night! Im gonna hit the town! I suggest you do too!
Good things come to those who wait! LOL

Sam xox :B-fly: :Fade-color
thats old now, like me, only 4 weeks to go!!!!!

"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education"

parent
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:23 am

Postby parent » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:49 pm

Why does the mention of Happy Place give me the creeps?

User avatar
a different guest
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:13 am
Location: Australia

Postby a different guest » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:48 am

had a real row with him in front of all the tutors and fellow pupils.


so a worldwide organisation is now going to change one of it's central beliefs?

If you beleive that then you have a few roos loose in the top paddock.

Yes Parent, "Happy Place" - it's all very Stepford Wives/Brave New World isn't it? *shudder*

james
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:13 am

If the headshead of the SES saw it was in their own interest to make changes to what they teach im sure they would.
From my own experience they have allready started to make changes to their "material". Especially in the area of meditation.
Their not stupid if they loose apllicants they will have to change. Even they need money. And no new people joining means less money!

User avatar
Keir
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:04 am
Location: London

Postby Keir » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:58 am

Nilsabm,

Of course the girls have access to the IT equipment - how else will it be kept clean and tidy for the boys to use?

There were a few posts in another thread from st james girls about 6 months ago, whether ex or current. Quite unsettling in their naivity in my view, and quite unlike the posts one would expect from a mature independently-minded human being in the 21st century.

Its not what they believe that is so unsettling so much as their ability to cogently debate and reason, and their lack of a real awareness of other ways that society deals with the same problems. If it was an informed choice I would have less of a problem with it. But saying that the outside world is degenerate and therefore cannot provide a useful solution only makes sense if you have had a wide view of the world and the multitude of ideas and people in it. I would suggest that the introspective SES and St James schools are not the most ideal places to learn about the real world. If its bigotted and sexist xenophobia masquerading as authority that you want to learn, I can think of no better!

nilsabm
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:31 pm

Postby nilsabm » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:46 pm

Hi Keir
Sharp witted as usual I see!

I entirely agree with what you say. One has only to talk to ex girl pupils, or read some of their testimonies, to see the damage that can be caused by SES doctrine. I have seen some of the posts submitted by more recent girl pupils, notably the ones on the 'sex before marriage' thread, that seem to show that what they are being taught is still inept and inappropriate. It was this that made me more anxious to hear what the girls had to say about the issues on sexism etc. that have been raised on other threads more recently.

N.

PP inquiry action group
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:45 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Parents & Pupils Inquiry Action Group

Postby PP inquiry action group » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:51 am

http://www.stjamesinquiry.org/

Parents & Pupils Inquiry Action Group


.

User avatar
Free Thinker
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:05 am
Location: USA

Postby Free Thinker » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:16 am

Thank you, Keir, for another extremely well-worded and meaningful posting.

I totally agree with you. Since I was in the NY SES, I have no problem believing that the leaders would try to stop people from reading this stuff, or to pass it off as something that happened in the past, or that it wasn't the business of anyone currently in the school. Whatever! :crazyeyes:

It took me 7 years after leaving to find this BB (not that it existed right after I left) and to truly deal with all of the issues growing up in the SES caused me, particularly as a woman.

James - if you haven't seen current pupils being compassionless, then you obviously have been reading many postings by them. Sam, in particular, has been oh so helpful with his "sod off" attitude. It's interesting that he has that attitude also towards Mr. Boddy, and the teachings of the SES that are presented in St. James, as well as other parts of St. James. Sure, it's great that he isn't a mindless follower, but it is sure telling that he feels so dismissive of his "great" education as well as our experiences.


Return to “St James and St Vedast”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests