Does this forum help you get over the experience?

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Message to Daffy

Postby Tom Grubb » Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:12 pm

Hi Daffy,

I have some information regarding St James and St Vedast that I'm sure will be of interest to you. Please click on the button to email me.

Tom Grubb

Daffy

Postby Daffy » Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:06 am

What is the nature of this information that prevents it from being simply posted on the forum?

Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Postby Tom Grubb » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:55 pm

Daffy wrote:What is the nature of this information that prevents it from being simply posted on the forum?

Good question! It concerns how far the campaign to bring abusers at st Vedast and St James to account has progressed. We know that at least some of the posts on this forum are read by the principal abuser (I expect you can work out who I mean) so we would prefer to give out this important information privately. Suffice it to say that things are going rather better for us than I think our abusers would like.

Abel Holzing
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:51 pm

Postby Abel Holzing » Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:42 pm

Hi TB

TB wrote:I have a question/comment regarding your comment to Meikl
... the main tools in the "pursuit of truth" are your OWN vision of truth, developed and refined by personal judgement, your critical faculties and lots of scepticism. These you must never surrender, ESPECIALLY NOT in respect of any teaching that influences you in the development of your core beliefs.

Does this lead one toward a truth that is then only applicable to yourself, and if so does it differ from just having opinions on things, and from the posts on this forum we all have these?

I am not suggesting you pursue ?your own (version of) truth?, rather your ?own vision of (the one) truth?. By ?own vision? I mean you need to discover, connect with and ?see? (experience) truth in such a way that it eliminates all doubt and stands on its own ? and it will do that only if it satisfies and fulfills you on all levels, the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. If you accept anything less than that as true you are taking a shortcut, and your vision will not be a true one.

If you feel we should not surrender our core beliefs to any teaching that might influence their development, then how do we get these beliefs? Our parents, peers, the education and legal systems, media, etc. are these not responsible for forming our 'core beliefs', and in their own way operate like the SES, perhaps with different intentions? If not this way, are we perhaps born with genetic inheritance with our core beliefs already hardcoded? If neither of these two mechanisms are responsible, how about divine grace?

I think you need to distinguish between any core beliefs you hold until you connect with inner truth (beliefs being the result of the various external influences you mentioned), and the situation after you have connected.
I didn?t say you mustn?t surrender any core beliefs until you connect with truth - I merely said you shouldn?t surrender your own vision of truth, personal judgment, critical faculties etc. Or in other words, you would not surrender beliefs simply because a teaching says so, but because your own vision of truth, personal judgment etc (possibly after being challenged by some ?teaching?) demands of you that you do. Once you have connected with the one inner truth (the only thing that is ultimately ?hardcoded?, if you like), truth will become your only (absolute) core belief ? all other beliefs arise from it, and are relative to it.
Divine grace is the revealing power of inner truth.

AH
Last edited by Abel Holzing on Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

TB

Postby TB » Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:18 am

Hi Abel,

Thanks for the response. I understand, and agree, with your comment about vision versus version of the truth. I also understand, theoretically at least, with using inner truth as opposed to beliefs. However, I feel sure that I have not yet made contact with this inner truth, in fact have never personally met another person who has either (I have met a few people who appear possibilities or close to being). Given my own fallible judgement, would I even recognise them? I place most people in the same boat as I, social and biological drivers dictating our own sense of reality. This does not discount an absolute, just that most people do not, and will not, connect.

Is the implication of your response that you have connected with the inner truth, or are you defining it based upon your theoretical understanbding of it?

Abel Holzing
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:51 pm

Postby Abel Holzing » Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:47 pm

Hi TB

TB wrote:Hi Abel,
I understand, and agree, with your comment about vision versus version of the truth. I also understand, theoretically at least, with using inner truth as opposed to beliefs.

I find that one of the keys to a ?practical? understanding is that you don?t ?use? inner truth, but think, feel and act ?from truth?; in the same way as you are currently not really ?using? your current beliefs or belief system, but act ?from it?.

However, I feel sure that I have not yet made contact with this inner truth, in fact have never personally met another person who has either (I have met a few people who appear possibilities or close to being). Given my own fallible judgement, would I even recognise them?

You may feel a special energy, or presence, in such people, but you will probably not be able to say for certain where it comes from ? some people?s 'aura' is very powerful even without a connection to inner Truth (and let's face it, throughout history plenty of ?holy? (wo)men have been accused of being charlatans, and a lot of charlatans have been able to persuade people that they were genuine ?).

I place most people in the same boat as I, social and biological drivers dictating our own sense of reality. This does not discount an absolute, just that most people do not, and will not, connect.

Although all have that innate ability, most do not, and will not, connect.

Is the implication of your response that you have connected with the inner truth, or are you defining it based upon your theoretical understanding of it?

Yes and no.
First I came to understand and accept intellectually (?theoretically?, as you say) that there had to be an absolute Truth, the result of opening my mind to the possibility of Truth. The consequence was that I started to THINK in terms of truth, which gave me a general orientation towards Truth.
Years later I finally appreciated and accepted it emotionally, too ? the result of an opening of the heart to Truth (I think it was Anais Nin who said 'and the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom' ? it was a bit like that). Connecting emotionally meant discovering my 'inner teacher' ? external teachings remain important but now only serve as a reality check.
From then on I wanted to FEEL Truth in all my thinking, feeling and actions more than anything else, and the sense of frustration (during the intellectual phase) gave way to a sense of inner transformation, inner purification.
So yes, I have connected with inner Truth as a bright light at the end of (what appears to be, but in reality may or may not be) a very long tunnel; I have NOT 'surrendered wholeheartedly', in the sense that I act from ?pure intention?, from Truth, every moment of my life.

AH

TB

Postby TB » Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:57 pm

Hi Abel,

Thank you for your response. I confess to being at a loss for words to respond with. I understand and recognise what you say and no disrespect intended, but I question how you 'know' you have connected with this 'inner truth'. (I know the stock answer to this). It serves no purpose to ask you to prove it, to ask what it is, or compare/contrast it with reality etc. These debates have been waxing over the centuries and I can read about these till my eyes frost over. Perhaps we have reached the point where words serve to obscure not clarify understanding. Thank you again for your perspective, sceptic though I am. Perhaps I should spend more time experiencing and less debating?

Abel Holzing
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:51 pm

Postby Abel Holzing » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:48 am

Hi TB
TB wrote:Thank you for your response. I confess to being at a loss for words to respond with. I understand and recognise what you say and no disrespect intended, but I question how you 'know' you have connected with this 'inner truth' (I know the stock answer to this). It serves no purpose to ask you to prove it, to ask what it is, or compare/contrast it with reality etc. These debates have been waxing over the centuries and I can read about these till my eyes frost over. Perhaps we have reached the point where words serve to obscure not clarify understanding. Thank you again for your perspective, sceptic though I am. Perhaps I should spend more time experiencing and less debating?

Exactly so. As I said myself in previous posts:

- until you yourself have connected with truth you are unlikely to be able to determine for certain whether someone else (incl me) has, or not
- your main tools in the "pursuit of truth" are your own vision of truth, personal judgement, your critical faculties and lots of scepticism; these you must never surrender ...

It seems to me that your own 'true' position, for the time being, can only be your own vision (i.e. what you can see from where you stand now), coupled with scepticism in respect of your current position as well as other people's (incl mine), coupled with a willingness to be completely open in mind and heart so that you may discover whatever there is to discover.

I merely said what I said because you asked, and not because the question had any prospect of being resolved.

Best wishes, AH


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