Something they should change at St James

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
Guest

Something they should change at St James

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:59 pm

Have read these discussions with interest as have been through the full 4-18 St James / SES experince - parents very involved ect ect! One of the main problems for me was that we were stuck with the same irrational, scary, verging on crazy teacher for 7 years. Personally I think the normal system of teachers having a different class each year is a far better system. When you are with the same teacher you just get stuck in a role in the class. I also felt that the philosophy gave our teacher an excuse to find the most extraordinary faults in us - remember being told off for having rebellious thoughts and not having enough stillness in me!!! At least if the teachers change you get a new shot at developing a relationship every year. What do you think?[code][/code]

dan
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:39 pm

what do you think?

Postby dan » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:31 pm

Guest, I am interested to read your views on St James, you being a pupil there from 4-18 is quite incredible, I hope you survived unscathed. I don't think it is healthy to have one form teacher for 7 years. It is an example of the incredible arrogance of those that run the school to suppose that they can ignore the tested methods of education that most schools adhere to and those which are recommended by OfSTED and other such bodies.

I was at St Vedast, in the 70s & 80s, and many aspects of school life were completely out of the ordinary. Debenham & the other decision makers must have been incredibly arrogant and dismissive of mainstream education to believe that modern languages and science were not important enough to be taught, instead valuing sanskrit, latin and ancient greek. It was like a time warp to the 1870s.

Even now at St James this kind of smug SES (School of Economic Science)-induced over confidence in the leaders' attitudes spills over into retarding the proper education of pupils. A year ago the TES reported that the Head of St james junior school believed it was completely unecessary to teach pupils ICT because 'anyone can learn to use a computer in 2 weeks'.

Of course children will survive on the whole however badly educated they are, but what a wasted opportunity for these St james pupils who may never achieve their full potential because of the muddle-headedness of these SES leaders who are incapable of accepting independent modern thought.
Dan

Alban
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:23 am
Location: London

Postby Alban » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm

Latin - don't be absurd. We had one term of latin before it was scrapped. Possibly because they found out that it is actually useful in some careers!

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:47 pm

Have mixed feelings about your reply, dan. The St James I went to had moved on in some ways from the really extreme days of St Vedast. I think I recieved a good basic education from St James - afterall many people finish with good grades and most students go onto university. I also met some teachers who were extremely commited to their subject and taught them well. Thats not to say that I agree with their decisions on what they put in the curriculum. For example I did find that not touching a computer untill I was 18 was a disadvantage!!! - but I think this has changed at the school now. I was in the girls school and found the continual shaping of us towards being "perfect young ladies" extremely frustrating. I also would like to have had a greater emphasis on learning modern languages. I seem to remember having to choose between art and physics when I was 12! I think the career advice we recieved (go to a uni in London so that you can continue living with your father and then get married!) was terrible. I did find that I left St James with very low self esteem and very few happy memories and had some trouble initially adjusting to the outside world of uni. Sounds like St James now is very different with the new heads.

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adrasteia
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Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:55 am

Postby adrasteia » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:37 pm

Anonymous wrote:For example I did find that not touching a computer untill I was 18 was a disadvantage!!! - but I think this has changed at the school now.

There are still no computers in the junior school, this is the school's policy, but there are now IT lessons for senior students.

Anonymous wrote:I think the career advice we recieved (go to a uni in London so that you can continue living with your father and then get married!) was terrible.

Career advice lessons are still awful, some out of date videos for about 5 universities, and not much else.
There is then a talk with the sixth form head about what you've decided you want to do, and the subject teachers can be helpful too.

dan
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:39 pm

girls school

Postby dan » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:38 pm

I think the career advice we recieved (go to a uni in London so that you can continue living with your father and then get married!) was terrible. I did find that I left St James with very low self esteem and very few happy memories and had some trouble initially adjusting to the outside


Hi Guest, what you say here really has the tone of someone leaving a cult and being ill prepared for life in the normal free world. What sort of an education is this that recommends a young woman can only live with a father or a husband and implies her career is secondary to this dictat? Aren't organisations/societies that do not value educating women medieval, not to mention abusive of human rights? the Taliban...etc

If the St James Girls school still promotes these values then all prospective & current parents should be very concerned. Are you able to say when you left St J, Guest? I hope you have managed to adjust now to the 'outside'.

I suppose that the SES would prefer it if young people left St James still dependent on their weird philosophies and unable to cope with life without the cult.
Dan

Misty

Postby Misty » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:07 am

the senior girls school now offers:

Dance lessons
Drama lessons
IT lessons, IT GCSE, IT A-level
Modern language: French (Spanish will be offered in the distant future).
Philosophy A-level (this is a major advance as its not SES philosophy, its philosophy as a subject, which deals with many sides to rigid topics such as abortion).
Religious Education, GCSE and A-level


-All these things progressed as soon as we moved into the new building, which was great.

After school clubs is enriched which too many choices:

(early morning Fitness)
(early morning Orchestra)
Lacrosse club
choir
Classical Civilisation Club
Science club
Film Club
Dance club
Drama Club
Gym Club
Community Service Organisation (run by selected pupils of all ages who organise community events for the school)
Aswell as individual music lessons being held after school.

I prefere staying with the same teacher for 6 years. As you get to know them as a person. Form teachers always have that special relationship with their own class. I remeber how we used to get Calipo ice lollies in the summer, and then Cake once in a while for a treat. Teachers begin to know you well, which I find warming, however I understand if some people find it claustruphobic.

Still sceptical

Postby Still sceptical » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:29 am

If I were to send my daughter to the girls school would she be made to feel that:

1. Women are inferior to men

2. Women should be groomed to be good wives which is thier role in life

3. Could she actively pursue a career in Medicine, Science, Law, Finance, Business etc.

4. Be asked to wear ankle length skirts to demonstrate feminity.

I am genuinely curious. Do tell.

Misty

Postby Misty » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:49 am

Still sceptical wrote:If I were to send my daughter to the girls school would she be made to feel that:

1. Women are inferior to men

2. Women should be groomed to be good wives which is thier role in life

3. Could she actively pursue a career in Medicine, Science, Law, Finance, Business etc.

4. Be asked to wear ankle length skirts to demonstrate feminity.

I am genuinely curious. Do tell.


1. NO.

2. They would never. But at the Art of Hospitality Trip, I felt like I had travelled to the past, where you would see 15 year old girls, cooking cleaning and sewing. However I did feel mighty proud after holding a dinner to raise money for the Marie Cure Cancer care on the last night of my stay there. We were absolutely exhausted but it felt like a day well speant. I will never forget the feeling of giving all your energy and time to something worthwhile and what's great is that it was a group effort. A night accomplished with fun. (Just one instance of my school life).

3. YEs most definately! No doubt about it. We had two past pupils who are doctors come in and give us hints and tips and a general feeling of what it is like working at a doctor. A large porportion go to uni, some take a gap year before going to uni. Quite a few girls in mY class applied for Law. Degrees range from Engineering, to medicine, to Maths and Finance, Biomedical, English, History, History of Art.. etc etc...

4. The school regulations must be adhered to. this means skirts must be 2 inches below the knee. Many teachers understand that uniform is expensive, and so if its not EXACTLY 2 inches below the knee or a few centimeters shorter (as the girl grows taller), it will be acceptable.
6th formers do not have to wear ankle lenght skirts. As long as its below the knees it is acceptable.

Less sceptical now

Postby Less sceptical now » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:59 am

Thank you.

Atleast some myths have been cleared up. Am very very pleased to hear that the current girls school is not in a time warp.

TB

Postby TB » Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:49 am

Still sceptical,
1. Women are inferior to men

2. Women should be groomed to be good wives which is thier role in life

3. Could she actively pursue a career in Medicine, Science, Law, Finance, Business etc.

4. Be asked to wear ankle length skirts to demonstrate feminity.

I can understand where your issues arise with the first 3 points. Regarding skirt length, is your issue with the old fashionedness of this or is their some intrinsic issue you have with skirt lenth. I get the sense that because ankle lengths skirts are not modern they are therefore undesirable. Is this how you judge it?

The second point could be percieved in the context of how men might also be groomed. Society might go a long way if we were able to groom men to become good husbands as their primary role in life, just as it could for women. I know this is not your intention with the comment, however by itself and if it does not exclude points 1 and 3, point 2 could have its merits.

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:30 am

TB wrote:Still sceptical,
1. Women are inferior to men

2. Women should be groomed to be good wives which is thier role in life

3. Could she actively pursue a career in Medicine, Science, Law, Finance, Business etc.

4. Be asked to wear ankle length skirts to demonstrate feminity.

I can understand where your issues arise with the first 3 points. Regarding skirt length, is your issue with the old fashionedness of this or is their some intrinsic issue you have with skirt lenth. I get the sense that because ankle lengths skirts are not modern they are therefore undesirable. Is this how you judge it?

The second point could be percieved in the context of how men might also be groomed. Society might go a long way if we were able to groom men to become good husbands as their primary role in life, just as it could for women. I know this is not your intention with the comment, however by itself and if it does not exclude points 1 and 3, point 2 could have its merits.


The principle of long skirts is not rooted in fashion but in sexual suppression - i.e. if you show a bit of ankle you are attracting sexual attention and if men see your ankles they might percieve you to be of questionable morals.

To less sceptical now,

Your daughter is likely to have a sound academic education and be given most of the opportunities that other schools could offer, however there is always the dangerous element of SES lurking in the background. The SES enforce the idea that women are subject to the commands of men (father then husband). There are dress codes, behavioural restrictions and specific roles are suggested for their employment - rarely are these on a par with men.

ST James is a recruiting groung for the SES and children should be guarded from cults who seek to gain membership in this way.


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