Should I send my daughter to this school?

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
Nietzsche
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Postby Nietzsche » Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:23 pm

I think (dangerous though this may be in the eyes of SES) that a discussion on the role of the hypothalamus, although fascinating and absorbing is not directly linked to the title of the thread. Perhaps this should be changed, or the debate should revert to the original question?

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dottydolittle
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Postby dottydolittle » Tue May 10, 2005 7:25 pm

anti_ses wrote:This is true, but not the whole story. The mantra, as any scholar of Sanskrit will tell you, means "pleasing" or "charming" and the prince was named because of the word's meaning. Personally, I don't think there's anything spectacular about the mantra, despite its secrecy. The sound is intrinsically more calming than the effect created by continuous chanting of, for example, "money" or "sex."

.


I would suppose the secrecy is due to the way different people pronouce the mantra in different ways, and so to stop the arguments that may be caused on " the rightful way to pronouce the mantra" it's deemed to secrecy.

However, I belive the choosen word is specific to the breathing pattern. Which helps us, in our minds chant the mantra. When breathing in you pronounce the first syllable, and when breathing out you pronouce the second syllable, to give a continuous flowing sound. As compared to another word like "Aum" which has only one syllable and may be a word which requires far more concentration. You may also find your breathing becoming longer and deeper the more you practice.

However coming back to the original post, of 10 year olds learning to meditate. At the time it was "cool", to start meditating, it was like another exploration. Something which everyone else was doing and you wanted to be a part of it.

Many freinds I know had wished they had learnt how to meditate when they were a bit older and mature (perhaps 6th form). In your early teens you don't really see nor appreciate meditation. Nonetheless, i belive sitting still for 15 minutes at the beginning and end of the day were certainly advantageous. And the "Pause" at the beginning of every lesson is exceptionally usefull, especially after a hyperactive break in the playground.

leonmich
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Postby leonmich » Tue May 10, 2005 9:05 pm

dottydolittle wrote:

I would suppose the secrecy is due to the way different people pronouce the mantra in different ways, and so to stop the arguments that may be caused on " the rightful way to pronouce the mantra" it's deemed to secrecy.


No it's just a simple mind control tactic used by many cults, to make the person feel individual. Needed because they have of course lost a large measure of their own mental freedom and unique identity to the group. Meditation is an ancient art with many techniques found in both Christianity, Chinese philosophy and Buddhism. However in the same way they taught fraudulent "Vedic maths" SES took the crackpot Maharishi inspired meditation route.

dottydolittle wrote:However coming back to the original post, of 10 year olds learning to meditate. At the time it was "cool", to start meditating, it was like another exploration. Something which everyone else was doing and you wanted to be a part of it.
Actually I was started at age 6/7 and there was no choice. Detention if you opened your eyes! Canning for frequent eye opening or "fidgeting". Try sitting still age 7 after a 10 minute screaming fit from Russell or being flung around the room by Southwell.

dottydolittle wrote:Many freinds I know had wished they had learnt how to meditate when they were a bit older and mature (perhaps 6th form). In your early teens you don't really see nor appreciate meditation. Nonetheless, i belive sitting still for 15 minutes at the beginning and end of the day were certainly advantageous. And the "Pause" at the beginning of every lesson is exceptionally usefull, especially after a hyperactive break in the playground.


One wonders with all this calming meditation going on, why were the staff so physically violent and highly strung? Break in the playground? What breaks in the playground? Occurs to me that pupils from the later schools have absolutely not the faintest idea of life in the first years of St James.

The problem with the lunches (we never had soup or anything cooked in the 7 years i was there) was the monotony. Every single day the same heavy bread apples and satsumas and pears and cheese. Your right, healthy to a point but the problem was the only source of protein was cheese,(sometimes nuts) and many kids ate way to much of it.The most exotic fruit were cherries, very rare, and carefully awarded or withdrawn according to behaviour. I remember strawberries once or twice. Even something as simple as vegetable soup would have made all the difference in winter months.
Of course we used to hit the local macdonalds after school with a vengance when we got older, the unvigilant getting punished for eating chips while still in school uniform. Chips were so kaliyuga. Tomato ketchup was know as "kaliyuga juice".

Yes I remember the poor ladies slaving away in the kitchen. Never saw a man in there, as SES men never cook or do such demeaning tasks.Come to think of it I always saw SES woman doing things, cleaning, scrubbing, polishing pouring tea. I remember at Stanhill seeing a tutor rather than make a 3 foot detour to the bin flick some rubbish in front of an SES lady on on her knees on the floor cleaning,her long dress covered in suds.
One problem with SES dogma was that the people writing it were simply a bit thick.

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dottydolittle
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Postby dottydolittle » Tue May 10, 2005 9:33 pm

leonmich wrote:
Occurs to me that pupils from the later schools have absolutely not the faintest idea of life in the first years of St James.



You are most correct.

The closest the most recent pupils have ever gotten to know about the histroy of St James is from this message board.

Some of the teachers whom we dearly respect are the ones whom many of the older pupils are throwing allegations of abuse. I'm not in the slightest bit saying that none of us belive the accounts. I most certainly do belive the accounts and I do have quite a bit of respect to those who courageously talk about the bitter times of their lives. However my veiw of these teachers (such as Southwel) are far from how many of you see them.

This is why i belive that by harming the repuation of St James Schools is a great pity, as these schools have flourished well.

You are probably just as surprised of the change as we are of your past. And yes we certainly do have a playground!!!!!! :Fade-color

Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 pm

Excuse me Dotty but I'm a little confused.

On the one hand you say that you believe the accounts of the older pupils, and then you say that your view of Southwell, for example, is very different to how we see him.

If you therefore believe its true that Southwell committed those acts on small children, I would be fascinated to hear what in fact your view of him really is, bearing in mind that he has never even acknowledged his past behaviour, let alone apologised for it.

That's right, you do have a playground now. In those days however, there was no such luxury. Our "playground" was the staircase of 90 Queensgate, where I was nearly killed in an accident involving some banisters.
Last edited by Matthew on Tue May 10, 2005 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Tue May 10, 2005 10:24 pm

dottydolittle wrote:Some of the teachers whom we dearly respect are the ones whom many of the older pupils are throwing allegations of abuse. I'm not in the slightest bit saying that none of us belive the accounts. I most certainly do belive the accounts and I do have quite a bit of respect to those who courageously talk about the bitter times of their lives. However my veiw of these teachers (such as Southwel) are far from how many of you see them.

This is why i belive that by harming the repuation of St James Schools is a great pity, as these schools have flourished well.

So, you "most certainly" believe that Mr Southwell has a history of violent abuse against children placed in his care but at the same time you "dearly respect" him? And you feel that "harming the reputation of St James Schools is a great pity, as these schools have flourished well"?

Perhaps you would prefer it if we former pupils just shut up about the past? Perhaps you feel that the reputation of St James is far more important than trivial details such as the huge damage done to so many of its former pupils?

Is this what you're saying?

Tom

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dottydolittle
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Postby dottydolittle » Tue May 10, 2005 10:42 pm

Matthew, I dont believe any of your accounts should make me change how I feel about the teachers and the St James schools. After all it's the past, and believe it or not you describe a different school- many things have changed.

The lenghty descriptions has only made me aware of the teachers' pasts. But I do not have the right to judge a person from their actions in the past. Especially when I have never seen them in such a different light.

You may have a memory of some vicious abuse by a teacher. But with the same teacher- i have a memory of a playful snowball fight.

I no longer wish to talk more about this, as I do not wish to cause any disrespect to the teachers concerned.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Tue May 10, 2005 10:46 pm

Apparently Hitler was a nice guy too - he was also kind to dogs.

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dottydolittle
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Postby dottydolittle » Tue May 10, 2005 10:54 pm

Tom Grubb wrote:
Perhaps you would prefer it if we former pupils just shut up about the past? Perhaps you feel that the reputation of St James is far more important than trivial details such as the huge damage done to so many of its former pupils?

Is this what you're saying?

Tom


Tom, not at all. I think its important that you have voiced your feelings. It makes more people aware of the past. And it allows many of you to share your expereinces which may be comforting and supporting. However I belive your problems are on a personal level. and NOT with the entire community of the St James Schools.

I appreciate where you are coming from, and I would sincerely like to think that you understand where I am coming from. If you can't then I'll assume you wish to only see it from your point of view. Then the whole point of a discussion will no longer be valid.

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dottydolittle
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Postby dottydolittle » Tue May 10, 2005 10:57 pm

a different guest wrote:Apparently Hitler was a nice guy too - he was also kind to dogs.



I wouldn't compare a teacher to Hitler...Nor would I compare current pupils to dogs. :crazyeyes:

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Wed May 11, 2005 12:17 am

I was hardly comparing pupils to dogs - it was just an aside.

But consider - you know a nice old man who is great with kids and kind to dogs. You have fun snowball fights.

You then discover that this nice old man was Hitler. Do you not let this concern you as
After all it's the past, ...

I do not have the right to judge a person from their actions in the past.

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adrasteia
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Postby adrasteia » Wed May 11, 2005 8:37 am

dottydolittle wrote:
leonmich wrote:Occurs to me that pupils from the later schools have absolutely not the faintest idea of life in the first years of St James.

You are most correct.
The closest the most recent pupils have ever gotten to know about the histroy of St James is from this message board.


Not quite, I think you'll find that many have a lovely glossy picture of the past of the school, which is why it's so hard for pupils put together the experiences narrated on this website and their own experiences of the same teachers.
What is the impression you get from the talks on Founder's day? (I think I am right in assuming you are a current pupil?)

How about the plaque of McClaren in the foyer? How about the history section of the schools website? Obviously the past is never directly confronted, it is the intentions that are recorded rather than actualities, but an impression is still left of an actuality, usually that of the intention.
I think that some people at the time did believe -or did a good job of pretending- and possibly still believe they accomplished those good intentions. If they can believe it hard enough, then people who they are in contact with now, who were not there, will absorb their picture of what happened.
Sorry, I'm getting a bit out of my depth.

Matthew
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Postby Matthew » Wed May 11, 2005 9:34 am

a different guest wrote:I was hardly comparing pupils to dogs - it was just an aside.

But consider - you know a nice old man who is great with kids and kind to dogs. You have fun snowball fights.

You then discover that this nice old man was Hitler. Do you not let this concern you as
After all it's the past, ...

I do not have the right to judge a person from their actions in the past.


Why not just take the "E" out of SES, to make SS - nazi 'Special Security' forces which invaded peoples lives as opposed to their countries.

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Free Thinker
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Postby Free Thinker » Wed May 11, 2005 7:52 pm

dottydolittle wrote:The lenghty descriptions has only made me aware of the teachers' pasts. But I do not have the right to judge a person from their actions in the past. Especially when I have never seen them in such a different light.

You may have a memory of some vicious abuse by a teacher. But with the same teacher- i have a memory of a playful snowball fight.

I no longer wish to talk more about this, as I do not wish to cause any disrespect to the teachers concerned.


I wonder if you'll feel the same way if you find out that, for example, one of your future children's babysitter sexually molested the last children he/she sat for. "Oh, well, that's in the past - I shouldn't judge him/her by it. Come on over to babysit!" How old are you, may I ask? You certainly don't seem to have much experience in the world with adults. Did you know that most verbal/emotional/physical/sexual abusers don't abuse every second of the day? If they did, no one would stick around to be abused! But since many of them are wonderful, sweet, kind, etc. most of the time and only abusers a little bit of the time, people get caught up emotionally and allow them to abuse or find themselves unable to get out. Women who have been date-raped have often have many wonderful dates with the man who then rapes them. Does that mean they should keep dating him? NO! If I found out that a boyfriend had date-raped a past girlfriend, would I keep dating him even though I thought he was Prince Charming? NO!

You have a lot to learn about life and people. If you judge people based on their words and not their actions, you'll find yourself a very unhappy person.

Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Wed May 11, 2005 9:08 pm

dottydolittle wrote:
Tom Grubb wrote:
Perhaps you would prefer it if we former pupils just shut up about the past? Perhaps you feel that the reputation of St James is far more important than trivial details such as the huge damage done to so many of its former pupils?

Is this what you're saying?

Tom


Tom, not at all. I think its important that you have voiced your feelings. It makes more people aware of the past. And it allows many of you to share your expereinces which may be comforting and supporting. However I belive your problems are on a personal level. and NOT with the entire community of the St James Schools.

I appreciate where you are coming from, and I would sincerely like to think that you understand where I am coming from. If you can't then I'll assume you wish to only see it from your point of view. Then the whole point of a discussion will no longer be valid.

Frankly, Dotty, I find it very difficult to understand where you're coming from!

You write, "I belive your problems are on a personal level. and NOT with the entire community of the St James Schools."

Well, you can believe what you like but, as it happens, my problems are very much with the entire community of the St James schools. That's because the entire community of the St James schools is run by the SES cult and the SES cult still harbours child abusers like Debenham and Southwell.

You write, "I think its important that you have voiced your feelings. It makes more people aware of the past. And it allows many of you to share your expereinces which may be comforting and supporting."

I don't think you're nearly "aware of the past" enough! I don't just post here as some sort of therapy. A growing number of former pupils of SES-run schools, including myself, are going to continue posting here until the SES stops evading the issue and actually tells the truth about the vile abuse of children carried out by its members at St James and St Vedast.

Tom


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