Our Campaign against urs, Parents THIS is what u want 2 hear

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
nilsabm
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:31 pm

Postby nilsabm » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:58 pm

Sam Hyde wrote:Maybe not cricket but we're noobies, and are surprised that this was found 'offensive' anyway.........moving on.

Sam xox


No apology for a mistake then?

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Sam Hyde
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Postby Sam Hyde » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:27 pm

It wasn't mine, wait for james to come on... He's in NZ :D
Daska if you come back to read this, like i said before i in no way wished to insult or provoke you, and I was being sincere, I am sorry if I did. I mearly presented the information I had to the argument, and if you feel it was presented in an agressive way it was not meant to be like that.
there you go,read the previous posts!

Sam xox
thats old now, like me, only 4 weeks to go!!!!!
"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education"

james
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Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:18 pm

Thanks for the defence Sam.
It was never my intention to insult or hurt anybody as I have posted twice already.

As for "Justice!'s" proposed change of his threads name to:

Quote
"Dont be Intimidated by St. James Staff or SES Parents OR PUPILS OF SES PARENTS AT ST. JAMES"

Neither of my parents are in the SES and neither are whitedevils, as he has allready said I belive.

Concerned-parent. Thanks for your post. I haven't deleted any of my posts to Daska. I belive he/she got upset about me asking who he/she was, but as i have allready said i didn't mean to offend.

WILDONE
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Postby WILDONE » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:43 pm

The new Boys of St James's are doing what they know is right. Well done boys in defending your school.

james
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Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:01 pm

Thankyou Wildone. Its good to know we have support, we may not know how to spell or much about grammer, (havn't done english since GCSE (got a B)) but we know whats right!
Thanks again

Alban
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Postby Alban » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:02 pm

WILDONE wrote:The new Boys of St James's are doing what they know is right. Well done boys in defending your school.


As I pointed out in this thread http://www.whyaretheydead.net:/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=427 there is nothing really to defend - I think we actually share a lot of common ground

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Sam Hyde
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Postby Sam Hyde » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:03 pm

Thanks for your support WILDONE.
Hear from you soon I hope.

Sam xoxo
thats old now, like me, only 4 weeks to go!!!!!

"I've never let my schooling interfere with my education"

daska
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Location: UK

Postby daska » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:49 pm

Dear James

james wrote:BTW all my info is of the senior boys, i don't know about the senior girls or junior school.


Yet you saw fit to condemn my first hand experience in an area you don't know about as 'useless'? Why is first hand experience 'useless' when fourth hand gossip is trustworthy. Because you know the identity of the person peddling the gossip? Because I have good reason not to shout about my identity?

It is a sign of maturity to acknowlege that you don't know everything. I certainly don't know everything but I do know what happened to me. I also know quite a bit about the current schools. It may not tally with what you wish to believe about your school, it may not even tally with your direct experience, but then I don't claim to know everything about the senior boys.

While I would not condone the alleged leafleting and 'graffing'. I would not automatically assume that this is ex-pupils. There are sufficient long serving teachers and ex-pupils whose children attend the schools that if this were the case the names of the culprits would be well-known. It is a fact that relations between the schools and the local residents in Olympia are not exactly cordial for many reasons - including noise pollution (singing with the windows open) and inconsiderate car use etc.

I accept that you did not intend any offence, but then I didn't say I was offended, only that I felt threatened by your probing ( I think you may on reflection realise that you understand this better than you claim, but only you and I know why that might be), neither were my comments about aggressive posts aimed directly at you, I apologise if it appeared that way.

Thank you for the apology, I hope you accept mine. The understanding will come with time!

Daska

whitedevil
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:22 pm

Postby whitedevil » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:02 pm

Daska,

Thank you for understanding. It's true it is a sign of maturity to admit that you don't know everything. We are doing our best not to sound cocky. glad to hear the rustle of olive branches.
freedom wears your scars of desire

nilsabm
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Postby nilsabm » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:06 pm

I must agree with Alban
I think there is actually more common ground between the old and new pupils than first appears. I therefore ask Zathura and Sam et al. to kindly take the time to read this through, as it is an attempt to reach some kind of understanding and compromise.

Zathura wrote:I ask the governors if they tell parents on introduction to St James that a key element to the S.E.S teachings, a core part, is that a woman should obey a man. If not then this unpopular S.E.S belief is hidden from parents. This is a hidden agenda. All the S.E.S couples I know have a relationship in which the woman obeys the man in no uncertain terms. Great pains are taken to arrange for the old wedding vows from Victorian times at these marraiges. This is almost one hundred percent commonplace within the S.E.S. All couples. This IS a fact unlike a lot of Justice's junk.
So there is a lot of S.E.S stuff that is hidden and is spun to the public. Most of it passes through a filter before it reaches the public. It is only inside that the hidden authority figures hold their sway


This is exactly what concerns us old geezers and bent over bints as Zathura charmingly refer to us ex-pupils. In fact, one of the failings of the inquiry was to realise how the promulgation of the misogynistic Laws of Manu to young girls, as if it were 'The Truth', had serious effects on their confidence and self-esteem for instance. If, Zathura, you are female, then you should appreciate this form of mental abuse better than most. It is not, I reiterate, the intent of myself, or the majority of people on this site, to harm the current pupils or even shut St James down. Our concern, like yours, is that the school should be free of damaging SES dogma. It is one thing to teach philosophy with an open and enquiring mind, another to spoon feed selected teachings and label them as The Truth. This is also something Zathura should appreciate (I note and commend your reading of Heidegger for instance). You are fighting, it seems, people with the same objectives and concerns as your own.

Similarly, Sam, if you really feel that those responsible for the abuse in the past should resign, why not offer some sort of support to those on this site who are requesting just that? You could even put your views in writing to the school heads and governors, together with a petition signed by current pupils. This would probably have more effect than the open letter.

The pupils on this thread have talked of finding a solution. It seems to me that the concerns and objectives of both ex and current pupils would be better met by co-operating in an effort to make St James a truly independent school. I fear that the School, by branding discontented ex-pupils as hard-line activists (and, I suspect, accusing us of being responsible for the leafleting and defacing of the schools, an action many of us have condemned) has attempted to divide pupils, past and present, who seek reform and a true break between school and cult.

whitedevil
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Postby whitedevil » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:25 pm

Nilsabm,

I agree with you. It's just in my experience, the SES has never involved itself in my education. I find the problem is that because the SES is so clandestine. The only real piece of information i have is the abuse. It would be interesting if they made everything public. Every transaction etc. Then we could come to a conclusion about what is to be done. Maybe that's what we should petition for....utter transparency
freedom wears your scars of desire

james
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: Leeds (currently in NZ)

Postby james » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:40 pm

nilsabm
I think you are right in saying we are campaigning for the same thing, we are just doing it in different ways. While certain people seem to think that posting how awfull the school the school is is the right way to do it, we are saying that the school is a great place to send your children and to attend, but however, it would be good for the school and the SES if the links were shown, the secrecy droped, and those that were around (especialy the governors) at the time of the abuse were reprimanded. (be it a formal writen apology or resignation)

Daska
Good to see your back, apology accepted, no problem. We both had first hand experiences, they were just very different experiences! I just think it is important that both sides of the story are told, fully.
If you feel it is important to remain anonymous thats fine, no hard feelings.
Last edited by james on Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

daska
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Postby daska » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:41 pm

That's an interesting statement Whitedevil.

Do you mean that no one has ever come into the classroom and said 'I'm from SES'. It was a bit different for us - on school trips to Waterperry we had to sit through interminable lectures from Leonardo da Vinci MacLaren in between oiling the bathroom lino and cleaning out the fireplaces. We knew very well the involvement SES had in our schooling. But then the majority of parents were in SES.

Having been in SES myself I find it easy to correlate the SES/SoES philosophy and what was and still is taught in the schools. I have seen the text books in use at both places and they are very similar.

daska
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Location: UK

Postby daska » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:45 pm

a thought...?

when we old gits/geezers/bints etc refer to the upanishads, gita, laws of Manu, the Absolute, The Truth etc are these things that current pupils recognise as being strung together in a theme. Or is the philosophy presented in a more dilute form?

james
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Postby james » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:48 pm

Hi Daska
see above post for message for you also!
The text books in schools are at present undergoing an overhaul, again I can only speak of StJ senior boys. The ones I have seen have dropped a lot of the BS!
The SES in the southern Hemisphere has changes its name to SOP (school of philosophy) I hope this is its first step in coming out of it shell of secrecy. Which can only mean good things, i hope it is replicated in the UK.
The philosophy taught at StJ SB is definatly more dilute, our philosophy lessons with David Boddy became politics lessons and we debated the current state of the EU. Much more usefull I thought! and more interesting!


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