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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:36 pm
Nibsalm. We do have much in common. Infact I have everything in common with the variety of protesters apart from wanting to actually close the school down or over exageratting claims of violence. I don't want to be rude. At All. However when I see too much inverted snobbery and spin going in the other direction I get cross. If people are going to over exageratte their claims about the school/THE school I'll try and be subversive in a counter move.
However there is plenty wrong with S.E.S as Nibsalm showed when highlighting one of my posts. That to me sums it up.
Could this campaign not be a war of words and protest with flowers (maybe a few thorns) rather than a kind of guns blaring shoot em up clumsy off target load of hype.
The most reasonable person out of the S.E.S must know it has some very damaging ideas. Mainly Maclaren ideas.
Thanks for taking me with a pinch of salt Nibsalm. I never mean to really offend. Just a pinch on the bottom.
No maniac thunderstorms or whippings from me. Efervescent not corporal punishment from me
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:28 pm
Daska [quote]I certainly don't know everything but I do know what happened to me. I also know quite a bit about the current schools. It may not tally with what you wish to believe about your school, it may not even tally with your direct experience, but then I don't claim to know everything about the senior boys
I would like to know what exactly happened to you at your time at st James. Please only answer if you are able to bring yourself to do so as I can imagine it must be very hard for you .
Also I would like to know what you know about the school that does not tie up. It is important to get everything out in the open after all that what your campaign is about is'nt it?
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:34 pm
James [quote]1 - the school to be fully open about its links to the SES, SoES, Sop whatever your preference!
2 - The governors around at time of abuse (however many remain) to fully cut any influence they have with the running of the school.
3 - For teachers involved with abuse to openly appoligise, be it here or a general and easily accesible letter / email / blog.
It sounds like the new boys of St James would like to put this matter to rest. Do you think that the above resolutions would solve this unrest or is it just a way to bring down the school entirely and that no matter what is done this will continue like a never ending story.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:05 pm
Having new governors won't destroy the school. And for the teachers, the real one's people are angryabout, for these to apologise is not only basic good sense,it is essential in making a genuine answer I think to the demands of the complainants. But even from a PR point of view for this apology to be missing the School risks more chance of being undermined than if the apologies are made.
The school won't be brought down in my opinion. It is too officially wedged into the secular and normal systems of inspection etc. So don't worry.
However for the lesser offenders to make heartfelt apologies and for nothing to come from DL CR and ND.
Well that smacks of legal protection.
The fact is certain lies have been perpetrated in my opinion in and around the report.
IT IS VERY UNLIKELY A TEACHER THREW A BOARD RUBBER ONCE.
this seems to me to be a lie.
I can dimly remember this sort of thing happenning every now and then. Not systematic abuse but far more times than once.
I also think it unlikely that ND cained on the bare butt once. What was his reason for doing this? This one time. Also why would quite a few people remember being cained on the bare behind. I don't know how many.
This surely is a legal protection lie and unfortunately I certainly don't think it 's THE TRUTH. Ironically
Now for there to be only this kind of self belief by the governors that only one board rubber was thrown and only one bare bottom caining. This strikes me as unlikely.
So it is unsuprising that the 'activists' are not believing the report not digging the Schools use of 'the report' as 'fact' and most of all are not digging the absense of an apology from ND, DL and CR.
The school is hiding. I BELIEVE THAT if at least an apology was given by these three individuals it would make a difference. Even if it is only a lip service. Better still if the true emotions of the most accused teachers are brought to bare and opened up just a little in this apology. It sounds like at least on some days they are sorry. why not say so openly.
Given the fact that St Jamers changed quite drastically over the years, the teachers themselves must feel some regret at earlier versions that they themselves changed. If you beat a lot of kids for 8 years then decided that wasn't the best education and gave the next 15 or so years of kids a different education that I assume was considered an improvement say sorry to those kids you repeatedly told the modern world was corrupt, who you repeatedly intimidated and occassionally were too violent towards. Say sorry for getting it wrong in the first ten years. For 50, a quarter, of the first 5 classes to be complaining and others to not have been reached for the inquiry, these are NOT negligable odds. For the first ten years St James was NOT wholly a good school in any shape or form. The ideas were ridged, the food was bad (and people were expelled for smoking spliff and made to look like the worst kind of criminals.) O.K spliff was illegal. But music, clothes, haircuts, private time, personal opinions and the space to not feel like you were going to be physically set upon if you spoke out of line. (some people are claiming this and I remember the less law abiding people in my class were hit far far more often. For the older classes it probably was nearer 'brutal' yet I still don't believe it was quite this bad) The encouragement of healthy relationships with girls instead of ABSURD ABSURD ABSURD school rules against it. THESE ARE NOT ILLEGAL LUXURIES. THESE ARE BASIC HUMAN FREEDOMS THAT YOU DENIED THE KIDS EVEN IN MY TIME.
If St James is now liberal about music, clothes, punishments has decent food, does not punish boys for meeting girls and vice versa, does not encourage parents to supervise all boy girl activities. Is sex still punishable if it comes to a teacher's attention with expulsion. Sure teach a healthy sex education but if you actually ACTIVELY do your best to supress it it will rear it's beautiful head up in the most irregular ways and create unatural tensions in ALMOST ALL St James kids and leavers. YOU GOT IT AND STILL GET IT WRONG ST JAMES. (in my opinion) YOU GO TOO MUCH THE OTHER WAY!!
If JAZZ POP as well as CLASSICAL is taught. If all PHILOSOPHY is taught. If boys are allowed to wear ear rings, grow there hair long, have sideburns etc. And girls allowed to wear short skirts and wear fancy make up etc. IF ALL THESE THINGS HAVE CHANGED THEN ST JAMES HAS CHANGED.
If none of these things have changed then ST JAMES is still the suppressed load of bollocks it was in my day.
These are normal freedoms all the other kids have been given. Other kids don't even realise these are freedoms. They take all the above for granted.
Does St James help gay persons come to terms with their sexuality.
NOW THESE ARE ALL THE BASIC CHANGES THAT PERSONS ON THIS SITE WOULD BE VERY HAPPY ABOUT IF ALL THESE THINGS HAD BEEN RIGHTED.
BUT THEY HAVEN'T HAVE THEY?
WOMEN ARE STILL THOUGHT OF AND TAUGHT TO BE DEPENDENT ON MEN EVEN THOUGH THEY GET THE GOOD MARKS.
Why do they get the good marks probably out of overidentification by the institution with the idea that women mature quicker than men. This idea is so strong in the S.E.S that it has produced this appalling disparity in academic prowess between boys and girls to such an extreme degree. I bet there is no other school in the country that could boast such an imbalanced male female dynamic. Maybe it is general I don't know.
But the fact is on Music, ideas about women, individual expression concerning apparel and hairdos and skirts and the assembly after assembly of partisan TRUTH lectures. THESE ACTUALLY HAVEN'T CHANGED.
Apart from the abuse this is what everyone is complaining about. CHANGE OR DON'T CHANGE. Don't pretend to change.
And apologise for the mistreatment
This is all so bloody obvious
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:19 pm
I see your point Wildone. However, your reason for inaction is (IMHO) not soundly based. It's a question of principle for points 2 and 3 and good sense for point one.
Is it right that governors for St James between 1975 and 1985 should continue in post? By not resigning they are effectively saying they were not responsible. But I'm afraid that the buck stops with them. If they had resigned on the day of publication of the Townend Report they would have been seen to be acting from principle. But because they did not so act they are now under pressure.
Secondly, if Mr Lacey has already 'apologised' to his current class at St James then why not to the people most affected - the former pupils? Three other teachers have done so and have been treated more sympathetically than they might have feared. It must be quite a burden to him to know that he hasn't done so - he could relieve himself of much of the burden by acting in this way.
As to the SES links - a greater openness makes the most sense. Otherwise, even if the furore dies down (as it will), there will come another time when it is revived.
I am sorry if it has been suggested to you that harrassment from this BB (accompanied by never-ending demands) is the likely lot for St James for ever and ever. If you look back at the posts since the BB was started you will see that much has changed. The demands have stayed very much the same - at least from former pupils and they are the ones who matter here
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:22 pm
I got told to cut my hair today.......just thought you might like to know
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:26 pm
I will comment further on this interesting topic u opened up Zathura I have much more to add, but white devil (I USED YOUR NAME: D)......Admit, it is ridiculous emo thing you got going on there boyo!!! Mind you mine is really long too, it looks rather poor atm so I will get it cut, OUT OF CHOICE! I can?t grow side burns
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:28 pm
If St James is now liberal about music, clothes, punishments has decent food, does not punish boys for meeting girls and vice versa, does not encourage parents to supervise all boy girl activities. If JAZZ POP as well as CLASSICAL is taught. If all PHILOSOPHY is taught. If boys are allowed to wear ear rings, grow there hair long, have sideburns etc. And girls allowed to wear short skirts and wear fancy make up etc. IF ALL THESE THINGS HAVE CHANGED THEN ST JAMES HAS CHANGED.
Zathura all schools have rules on hair do , how short the skirt is and what type of music should be performed at school concerts. This is part of good morale. That is what parents look for when sending their kids to a school. What values are taught. Academic Progress. This is what good parenting is about as well. All schools need to enforce an effective discipline in a school ie in this case verbal warnings, issue of red and yellow. If you the Head Master/Mistress of a school would you not enforce certain criteria becoming of your school? Suggestions can be made through the schools council and students can be heard. Changes can be brought about . And in many schools this proves quite effective. What is to say that this is not being done at St James.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:36 pm
WILDONE wrote:I would like to know what exactly happened to you at your time at st James. Please only answer if you are able to bring yourself to do so as I can imagine it must be very hard for you.
Well, that'd be difficult wouldn't it cos if I told you exactly then it'd be pretty bloody obvious who I am! I know you lot are new to this but don't they bother to teach you any common sense at all?
how about you tell me in detail all about the last conversation you had about a personal issue with a named teacher - how anonymous would you feel then?
Having said that, you could just try reading some of my posts...
WILDONE wrote:Also I would like to know what you know about the school that does not tie up. It is important to get everything out in the open after all that what your campaign is about is'nt it?
ditto the above answer to a certain extent. I put examples of my direct recent experiences in my posts on this thread and they were dismissed as 'useless' by someone who later admitted he didn't know about the situation - that's why I say actual events and beliefs may not tally and that is why it is important to remain open-minded and sceptical.
I've been as reliable, honest and truthful as is possible whilst retaining my anonymity. I try not to exaggerate, repeat gossip or make unwarranted personal attacks - though sometimes I react when goaded
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:37 pm
No other school encourages parents to supervise all male female meetings.
No ther school doesn't teach Jazz and Pop.
Some private schools ban earings long hair and expell for spliff.
Most state schools allow girls make up, boys earings and long hair.
What schools does St James want to be like. Cat Steven's (the reformed and penitant born again muslim rock star) Islamic schools.
I repeat my mild questions. Is there still a uniform at St James including hair cut restrictions.
Are pupils officially banned from meeting members of the opposite sex?
Is jazz and pop frowned upon?
Are gay people helped and advised. (not told it is unatural)
Apart from the uniform point, the rest are very serious issuse.
(sure a lot of schools still have uniforms) But is this healthy? The first thing any power base does is create a uniform. The word itself means uniformaty. I don't think other schools should have uniform either or ban pop music or Jazz, or meetings between boys and girls or homosexuality or lesbianism. Which other schools do this Wildone?
In all mildness and with best wishes for your campaign against the extremes of the campaign against the school
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:39 pm
We have a student councill!
Of which I am chairman.....want me to raise some issues?
Wildone, what you say is very valid, of course a school sets standards and expects the students to abide by them. Hair, music what ever, it would be very embarrasing for the kids and parents if a school band got up at music competition and did a SlIPkNOT cover wouldn't it? As it happens I have done goo goo dolls covers, wone a prize and this year am thinking of doing dire straights:sultans of swing. Its just good taste.
and a phrase I'm sure we're all overly familiar with (appart from Justice!, dont want to exclude you from the fun!).....Good Measure!! lmao
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:40 pm
Sam....I'm pretty out of touch.....can you do Dire Straits at St James?
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:42 pm
I'll go into this more as well as the hair, dance, food bit in a while, maybe tomorrow as Im off out soon to get hammered!
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:45 pm
Zathura Thank you for your reply. Yes I do agree that apologies should be made to those directly affected by this.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:52 pm
So Sam Chairman of the council as you so pointed out. What have you done so far? What sort of teacher/student support do you have in this council