A non subserviant girl's opinion-pls read this objectively

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
NYC
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Postby NYC » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:54 pm

Stanton. are you saying you are a woman? Because I had assumed from your posts & your username you were male. mypoint is not that men don't ever assist, but that the SES worldview will not accomodate men in the helpmate role to a leading woman.

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bella
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Postby bella » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:23 pm

I'm getting it, NYC. :)

My tutors in Parts 2,3 and 4 were women, and all had male assistants. Right now, there are, um.... 4, maybe 5 female tutors at the Bris school who have male assistants. Half single or divorced, half married (the women tutors).

Yeah yeah, we're a little provincial backwater where the clueless rubes worship the progressive, hanky-waving messianic leader (waves to Gandalf and HoHum), but still, it's not a whitewash.

mgormez
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Postby mgormez » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:56 pm

Sam Hyde wrote:Hey Tina!

F.T moving on from your point, there is a lot of homophobic bullying that goes on in the school. It is not addressed by the staff nor is it given any credit. I will be addressing this issue in tomorrow's School Council meeting, it deserves recognition and action.


Did anythihg came out of the meeting or have I missed it?
Mike Gormez

NYC
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Postby NYC » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:12 pm

Bella wrote:My tutors in Parts 2,3 and 4 were women, and all had male assistants. Right now, there are, um.... 4, maybe 5 female tutors at the Bris school who have male assistants. Half single or divorced, half married (the women tutors).


well, that is progressive news, but it doesn't match what FT or I have seen in NY. And I don't see how it fits in with what you've previously described as School teaching. If men "are" the natural decision makers and women "are" the natural supporters, then what's with this unnatural reversal ? doesn't the earth open and the sky fall? or is the "ideal" one thing and reality another, sort of like Catholics using birth control?

I would estimate that 80% of the assistants I encountered here were female, and, oh, maybe 40% of the tutors. However, I've never (no, not once) seen a woman tutor assisted by a man, and FT, who has far wider exp here, says the same.

I've noticed that a lot of women drop out when they find out about the long-skirt rule or "recommendation" and so consequently there are fewer women in the pool of likely tutors (and I can't help but wonder if that is one of the real purposes of the skirt rule).

I'm a little confused, FT, about who Joy Dillingham was tutoring when she was the NY school head -- since the groups divide at some unspecified point, she was teaching women only, right? and some other guy was teaching the most senior men? I am not at all confused about why her assistant was female though -- it would be so humiliating for a man to take the secondary position to a woman! Imagine if she asked him to shut the door or write something on the board! Why he would hardly be able to get it up at home for a week. Barf.


Sam wrote:there is a lot of homophobic bullying that goes on in the school. It is not addressed by the staff nor is it given any credit.

Sam, I hope you can address this further on one of the many threads already dealing with SES/St James and homosexuality.

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Stanton
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Postby Stanton » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:55 pm

Yes, NYC, I'm a woman, wearing a skirt as I write and not a particularly long one at that! Before I left the school (since returned as my posts indicate) I tutored a group for a while. I had a man assistant and, yes, he used to write on the board and all that. Prior to that I was a group secretary with a woman tutor who also had a man assistant - so it's not uncommon.
Since we're ruminating about long skirts I'll put in my two penn'orth. When I first joined the school it was the older ladies who had the real resistance to long skirts - theirs was the generation that first wore short skirts and suddenly they were being asked to go back into long. Me? Well, us younger ones just tidied up our hippy attire, bought some Laura Ashley and swanned in perfectly comfortably.
It all depended on the viewpoint.

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bella
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Postby bella » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:36 am

NYC - if the school teaching is that "mean have greater access to reason", and "women have greater access to emotion", it doesn't mean that one or the other is better equipped to tutor a group. Both are required. In the case of a younger school, also, the primary qualification for being a tutor is being sensible and available. Not a huge pool to choose from, but it seems that even as the pool widens, the women are still reasonably represented, presumably because they're asked to tutor based on experience and clarity, rather than genitalia. Same for the assistants.

Re the long skirt rule and women leaving - don't forget the "guys must wear jacket and tie/suits" rule. There have been plenty of men who've had issues with that one, too. Do you seriously think they would implement a long skirts rule to get women to leave the school? Surely there are much easier and more direct ways to go about that, if it was the intended outcome.

Goblinboy
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Postby Goblinboy » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:58 am

bella wrote: don't forget the "guys must wear jacket and tie/suits" rule. \


Somewhat frivolous posting: Suit and tie or long skirt in the Brisbane summer must be a bit of a trial, B? Phew.

I'm sure your typo on "men" is not a freudian slip, BTW. :-)

chittani
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Postby chittani » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:40 am

Well said Bella.

However it is time we examined some of these beliefs. Research with small children has been done where they are put in a room with a loudspeaker broadcasting from another room which has a baby in it. When the baby starts crying, heart monitors reveal the boys getting more highly stressed about it than the girls. BUT the girls react by trying to find a way to help the baby. The boys react by trying to turn off the loudspeaker.

What I read from that is that boys are by nature more emotional than girls, and it's too much for them. Because the girls are not overwhelmed by the emotion, they are able to do something to help.

There may be a parallel experiment that reveals that girls' rapidity in dealing with things practically makes them focus on that at the expense of reasoning in the abstract ... or something. Yikes!

The point I would make is that we need to go a bit further with our reasoning. It is one thing to say that the sexes have complementary qualities; another to really understand what that means and make practical use of it. A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing...

On the skirts/ties argument, I'd like to see the School stand up and state its principles. Do we support traditional gender roles? Do we believe that respect for philosophy requires that we dress well? Well, it would be nice to hear someone say so. Then at least we could have a discussion. At the moment we just seem have a dress code that dares not speak its name.

AntonR
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Postby AntonR » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:10 am

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Last edited by AntonR on Wed May 17, 2006 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:15 am

On the skirts/ties argument, I'd like to see the School stand up and state its principles. Do we support traditional gender roles? Do we believe that respect for philosophy requires that we dress well?


When habitual criminals face court, they dress well.

ahh, so that makes them ok then?

Since when has how someone dresses truly reflected the person?

I know that some people like to dress 'corporate' as this makes them feel powerful. Well if you need a decent 'bag of fruit' to do your job, then I feel sorry for you.

Personaly I have always worked best when dressed comfortably. Many work places these days in Australia (particuly in the creative and IT areas) allow this. As long as you are clean, neat and tidy - what more is needed?

chittani
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Postby chittani » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:50 am

It's great speaking to Aussies, they know how to get personal.

ADG

I didn't say that those were my beliefs. I said that the School needs to re-state its principles so that they could be discussed. Nothing to object to there, is there? I thought you were all in favour of openness.

We are all capable of distinguishing between our personal morals and the ethics of organisations to which we are affiliated. There are often good reasons for uniforms and dress codes - try playing or watching sport where the teams are smart/casual. Would you get married in a baseball cap or attend a funeral in one? Well, maybe you would. But would you feel the right to sneer at people who had chosen to express their respect for the occasion by dressing up? I hope not.

Your thinking on this topic is more casual than smart.


Sorry I couldn't resist that. BAD Chittani.

mgormez
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Postby mgormez » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:01 pm

chittani wrote:What I read from that is that boys are by nature more emotional than girls, and it's too much for them. Because the girls are not overwhelmed by the emotion, they are able to do something to help.


It could also be that boys (and me too) get irrated the hell out of babies crying. Not on the baby but the terrible sound. It can truly ruin a flight for me when a couple of whining babies are aboard.
Mike Gormez

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:20 pm

But would you feel the right to sneer at people who had chosen to express their respect for the occasion by dressing up


If it is an "occasion" I have no problem "frocking up" . Just don't see why a weekly 'philosophy discussion' warrants it. I didn't "frock up' for uni, and that is FAR more serious.

And mike - crying babies on planes annoy me too. Put it down to women not breastfeeding. A babe will suckle the breast for comfort (and not cry) where they won't with a bottle.

chittani
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Postby chittani » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:54 pm

Blame the baby, blame the mother ... blame anyone, turn off the loudspeaker, turn on the Ipod. Fingers in the ears, I can't hear you!

I think you guys just proved what a killer piece of research that was.

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bella
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Postby bella » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:10 pm

GB - We have air conditioning, so it's not so bad if the guys get changed/put on their other layers at the building. But yeah, in the summer it's fairly common for the men to remove their jackets in group, or on a service team - to keep them off when they're not directly serving students. Heh, no the typo wasn't a Freudian slip (but if it was, I wouldn't know, would I?) but I'm leaving it there anyway. :)

Anton - I can't give you exact figures, but my estimation would be something like 60% women.

Chittani - we've had the dress code and its reasons spelled out to us numerous times. You guys haven't? That's just odd. Maybe we colonials need more explicit justification.


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