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Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
Free
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Postby Free » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:34 pm

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Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Free Thinker
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Postby Free Thinker » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:51 pm

Thank you Free!

I have no personal investment in such a process but it has definitely been my experience that the only way you will come away from such an SES meeting is to have questions prepared beforehand, and your responses to their "spin" thought out ahead of time so you know how to respond when they try to squew the question or not really respond to it.

Listening to any current US gov't press conference should give you an idea of how the SES might respond...

StVSurvivor
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Re: Questions for St James parents to ask SES leadership

Postby StVSurvivor » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:32 pm

Free wrote:3. Educational qualifications of Senior Boys Headmaster

Exactly the same question would need asking to the Senior Girls Headmistress. I believe there is no difference between the two of them in this regard.

sugarloaf
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Postby sugarloaf » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:55 pm

some very specific quastions on the appointment process & criteria for teachers - (including headteachers) might not go amiss

The same question could aslo be asked about appointing Governers.

As a well managed and governed school, I am sure they not only have a clear policy on this - but it will be documented - in writing - on a policy document that is identifiable. I'm sure they would be able to clarify this.

chittani
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Postby chittani » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:10 pm

Free,

You forgot to mention one thing - Take an open mind! You know ... 'free thinking'?

It can hardly be denied that a somewhat paranoid approach might be justified given the material on this site ... but in the end why would anyone bother going to any such meeting if they thought there was an effort to dupe?

As for educational qualifications - I don't know what education Laura Hyde has but her School is currently ranked 20 in the UK academically. Should think that with THAT record she wouldn't have a problem getting another head teaching job ...

I do think that some of the questions are valid for such a meeting, others would be better at a different forum. But fear and paranoia is a terrible basis to meet anyone.

Don't forget who is under interrogation here ... the worst that can happen to someone who is well-informed is that they will get frustrated.

I don't expect you will believe this, but the intention of a growing number in the School is that there will be a genuine meeting and that the truth will be acknowledged, followed by genuine reform. You can look at my other posts if you want to find out what my own views are.

sparks
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Postby sparks » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:28 pm

SES and abuse at St James

Ask whether Lambie (on behalf of the SES) accepts the findings contained in Townends report.

If he accepts...
He is agreeing that the SES effectively directly run St James until at least 1995ish AND agreeing that the abuse happened while the SES ran St James

Therfore ask why:
1. There has been NO apology - or public comment from the SES
2. No-one from the SES has taken responsibility for what happened


Re SES having NO link to St J other than the odd chat!....

If Lambie accepts the Townend report which found that SES effectively directly run St James until at least 1995ish then ask:

1. Why were no parents made aware of this at the time?
2. Why were parents' calls for greater transparency dismissed?
3. What specific changes have there been in the last 10 years that mean that the SES and St James relationship is different now.

4. And for St James representatives at the meeting...WHY DOES YOUR LITERATURE, WEBSITE and marketing spiel still hide the real SES / St James relationship?


SES and St James governance

I am sure they not only have a clear policy on this - but it will be documented - in writing


1. Ask to receive a copy of the schools "intruments of Governance" or simular which should clearly set out all aspects of school governance.
2. Ask who appoints the Governors
3. Ask Lambie directly what role HE has had in the appointment of ANY of the current staff including headteachers.
4. Ask him exactly how Laura Hyde was appointed!
5. Ask him what his role was in David Boddys appointment

On SES and children
1. Ask Lambie how often he visits the schools, at whose invitation and for what purpose?
2. Ask Lambie if he meets children to talk about the FOUNDATION GROUP
3. Ask Lambie how the SES philosophy differs from that 'taught' at st James
4. Ask Lambie whether he discusses the philosophy 'material' for children with the headteachers.
5. Ask Lambie in what way (other than legally) St James is anything but an organ of the SES

Wish i could be there!!!

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Ben W
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Is there a meeting actually scheduled?

Postby Ben W » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:37 pm

Hi Free,

A very good idea to have this thread. Preparation is certainly very important. And it is good, in my opinion, to get all the issues onto the table here as part of that preparation.

Is a meeting actually arranged? Or is this preparation in anticipation of a meeting?

Best wishes,
Ben
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years

sugarloaf
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Postby sugarloaf » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:39 pm

oh - and an interesting one to ask might be exactly when they became aware of allegations of mistreatment and assaults, and complaints about SES involvement in the schools.

several possible answers:

A 1: Only last year - and we ordered the inquiry straight away to find out the truth.
Further question: The report must have been a shock to you - what have you learned from the inquiry, and what changes are you going to make?

A 2: We found out about the complaints in the mid eighties. When we discovered what was happening we dealt with it and made changes. Thats why the inquiry only found the mistreatment up to 1985. We learnt from our mistakes - we changed and we're not like that now.
Further question: Perhaps you could explain David Boddys statement to a television audience of 2m people that last year was the 1st time the governors became aware of all this.

Exactly what changes did you make, and where are these documented and recorded by the schools management? I presume if you knew criminal assaults had occured you contacted the relevant authorities?

A 3: Yes we've had a few complaints over the years, some quite serious, but we dealt with each one as and when it arose. Each one was satifactorily dealt with. These are the complaints that were publicised in the press and media in 1983-85. David Boddy is no liar - the complaints submitted to the inquiry were completely new to us.

Further question: some of these earlier complaints were about lack of transparency over the SES connection, indoctrination, excessive punishments including corporal punishment on children as young as 4, and included criminal assaults. Could you explain in detail how you addressed these complaints, and what changes if any were made in response to them? I presume in cases where the Headmaster ascertained a teacher had physically assaulted a pupil, then that teacher was removed from the school, thus preventing the risk of further assaults on children?

I'm sure theres plenty more....

sparks
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Postby sparks » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:51 pm

chittani wrote:
I don't expect you will believe this, but the intention of a growing number in the School is that there will be a genuine meeting and that the truth will be acknowledged, followed by genuine reform.


Forgive my scepticism...this is hardly the first time the School and St James have been called to acknowledge the truth and reform - is it?

The Townend Inquiry and responses to it (no accountability, no action, no resignations, no SES apology, no contrition, slagging off the victims of abuse etc) hardly leave the current mafia with much credibility.

So if what you say is true then good on those in the school who are not prepared to bury their heads in the sand yet again. The current leadership? Never - they have no interest in truth or reform. THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOLUTION. Anything they do will be driven by a desire for damage limitation alone.

A DIRECT CHALLENGE TO DONALD LAMBIE
there will be a genuine meeting

Instead of just meeting a few current non-ses parents who will no doubt find themselves outnumbered, CALL AN OPEN MEETING - invite all current parents and pupils, former parents and pupils, governors and all other "members of the school community" who want to ask you questions .... or would that perhaps make it too difficult for you or your Field Marshals to wriggle out of answering uncomfortable questions.

Go on! If you really do think reform is necessary step out from the shadows!

Free
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Postby Free » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:12 pm

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Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Free
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Postby Free » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:24 pm

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sugarloaf
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Postby sugarloaf » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:56 pm

A direct challenge to Donald Lambie
Instead of just meeting a few current non-ses parents who will no doubt find themselves outnumbered, CALL AN OPEN MEETING - invite all current parents and pupils, former parents and pupils, governors and all other "members of the school community" who want to ask you questions .... or would that perhaps make it too difficult for you or your Field Marshals to wriggle out of answering uncomfortable questions.

Go on! If you really do think reform is necessary step out from the shadows!


What an excellent idea. That would lift the cloak of ambiguity.

What do curent SES members, students and St james teachers and Parents think of this? Its your school, its your SES, you can ask for what you want.

How do you think Lambie and Pincham are handling this? Are you happy with the decisions they are making on your behalf. They are making the bed, and youre going to have to lie in it.

Why not call for an open meeting, where SES, St james, current parents, and former pupils can thrash out the issues for once and for all?

Is the SES & St James afraid of dealing with the truth?

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Ben W
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Postby Ben W » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:21 am

Errrrr...

Now it's my turn to ask for moderation.

No problem with good preparation - and the points that are being made here are really good ones. It is important to be able to deal with any diversionary tactics.

The overall aim of such a meeting must be to bring people closer together - which involves getting the important questions on the table and insisting on / receiving clear, meaningful, honest answers - all done in a non-confrontational way.

Or am I missing something? (serious question)
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years

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Keir
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Postby Keir » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:01 am

The overall aim of such a meeting must be to bring people closer together - which involves getting the important questions on the table and insisting on / receiving clear, meaningful, honest answers - all done in a non-confrontational way.


The problem is that with every delay, fudge, bluster, PR-pro apology, or false promise the so-called moderates increasingly alienate those of us who feel that a genuine apology given by the abusers to the abused should be the first movement of any non-confrontational debate/discussion.

If that is radical, then I am a radical.

For so many years we endured this same treatment in respect of our and our parents concerns. Now they want us to stop posting to keep this board alive and they want US to be reasonable, trusting, and fair when they meet us. Bullshit. You want me to stop posting? Act honorably and apologise, resign, and ask nicely for considered input on the discussion about how to make the SES a more 0'ies organisation and remove any suggestion of impropriety from ST James.

I am encouraged by reports of a re-appraisal of the teaching by Mr Lambie, but this would seem like a very long way round a simple apology.

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Ben W
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Fair point

Postby Ben W » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:29 am

OK Keir - point taken.

I do not see anything wrong with the thrust of this thread. Personally I believe a strong and unreserved apology is required - and soon. I accept people have waited a very very long time for this.
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years


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