St James medical checks

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
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Stanton
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Postby Stanton » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:30 am

And what's more, young Sam, if you carry on drinking in the way you've described you won't have a liver worth contemplating by the time you're thirty.

Wise old saw no.1: whatever you put in the bank you have to live with.

AntonR
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Postby AntonR » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:36 am

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ems
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Postby ems » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:18 pm

Ah yes, Ayurvedic medicines. What's that all about?
Ems :?:

Planet
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Postby Planet » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:12 pm

Sam Hyde wrote:Hi guys and girls,

I think this is a thread we can finally see eye to eye on!!!!

Looks like your smuggling two dwarfs under your skirt.

Sam xox


Nothing wrong with smuggling dwarfs you know. Anyway here is a nice educational web page on pickling your liver

http://www.chemcases.com/alcohol/

emmalu9
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Postby emmalu9 » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:32 pm

Interesting thread. I've often struggled to reconcile the SES' advocation of complementary therapies and my own experiences since leaving the school. My mum has been into loads of different health fads, both while in the SES and since leaving in about 1993. Anyone remember the funny white powders from indian doctor in NW London (I think)? When I was at St J, rescue remedy and arnica would be prescribed for just about everything. I loved being in the sick bay though, because it meant I wasn't in the classroom and the carers were usually mothers of my classmates and far preferable company to that of teachers. Maybe thats why I have a positive association with rescue remedy!

I must add here that at the last school I attended (Godolphin & Latymer), our lovely matron was known for her ridiculous tag-line: Have an aspirin. Now there's a good way to pickle your liver! Same attitude, different school?

I do know that non-conventional medicines take into account the modern way that people live, ie with high pollution levels and pesticides and growth hormones etc in foods, in a way that modern medicines don't. Also, complementary therapists tend promote the prevention of illness through building up immune system and healthy diet, in a 'treat the cause rather than the symptoms' strategy, which seems far more sensible to me than some of the ridiculous off-the-shelf products promoted by pharmaceutical companies.

One example: the First Defence nasal spray that was widely promoted last Winter. I was foolish enough to fall for the marketing spiel and bought this product as I had a cold and a singing audition at the same time. My nose certainly stopped running and thus my nose was a little less red, but I couldn't sing for shit. My teacher was horrified when I told him what I'd taken and told me that the spray worked by congealing the mucus in the sinuses, thereby making the symptoms disappear but also inducing headaches, aching sinuses and creating a breeding ground for sinus infections.

I know it may seem like a ridiculously small issue, but for me it sums up everything that's wrong with the medical industry, especially when you consider that each new First Defence nasal spray retails at about ?6-?7, and the best treatment (hot baths, lots of sleep, sinus-soothing inhalations of essential oils and hot lemony drinks) is pretty much free, and has been known and used for centuries!

Before all you conservatives lynch me, I'm certainly not saying that complementary medicines and therapies should be used instead of everything that modern medicine has to offer. The doctor I see is a surgeon who uses and prescribes many alternative therapies such as acupuncture, Ozone therapy, vitamin infusions, dietary supplements and massage in treating the whole patient, not just the problem area.

Apologies for the rant, its just a subject that I happen to feel very strongly about!

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bonsai
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Postby bonsai » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:08 pm

emmalu9 wrote: Anyone remember the funny white powders from indian doctor in NW London (I think)?


That was Dr Barot and yes I remember him well.

emmalu9 wrote: Maybe thats why I have a positive association with rescue remedy!


Or maybe it was the brandy

emmalu9 wrote:I do know that non-conventional medicines take into account the modern way that people live, ie with high pollution levels and pesticides and growth hormones etc in foods, in a way that modern medicines don't. Also, complementary therapists tend promote the prevention of illness through building up immune system and healthy diet, in a 'treat the cause rather than the symptoms' strategy, which seems far more sensible to me than some of the ridiculous off-the-shelf products promoted by pharmaceutical companies.


Yes there is a lot wrong with over the counter pharmaceuticals I agree but I totally disagree that conventional medicine treats symptoms and doesn't subscribe to prevention.

The whole concept of immunisation (not wishing to introduce a controversial subject here) is based on the fact that prevention is better than cure and improving the immune systems defences.

I also believe that every doctor would ethically attempt and intend to treat a root cause as opposed to a symptom but that all depends on understanding the nature of the illness in question.

I agree that conventional medicine is not good at the holistic approach thing but this is improving big time and I would imagine leaps and bounds to be made in this area too.

I have a problem with alternative therapies in that many of these are not administered by suitably trained practioners or properly regulated leaving plenty of room for con artists to sell duff therapies to a gullible public, where not enough scientific scrutiny is applied to the claims these treatments have and actually with some of these there is the potential to do real harm too if not administered properly or in the correct situations.

That's not to say I wouldn't use alternatives its just that you have to be ten times more discriminating about what you use and what you select. There is a tendency to believe alternatives are safe options and this is not necessarily true.

Bonsai

ross nolan
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homeopathy

Postby ross nolan » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:33 pm

Following up the comments about homeopathy -- the basic idea of diluting 'active' ingredients to less than one molecule concentration seems indisputably ridiculous and clinical double blind tests have been conducted with (apparently) some anomolous results.

The current "new scientist" carries the cover story "Water's quantum secret" and goes into some detail on the unpredictable macroscopic properties of common water arising from quantum level atomic bonds -- the possibility that there is some effect of this in homeopathic treatment of water is discussed.

Could be of interest.

I have a little difficulty in understanding how the traditional (medieval or even ancient ) medicines can so well handle the modern scourges of pollution (presumably meaning man made chemicals etc ) when there can have been no exposure at their time of invention (?)

Has anyone any comments on the health effects of the "vegetarian" diet espoused by the SES and served in the schools -- the food at the Erasmus school was characteristically Indian with heavily spiced and highly cooked dishes based on bean derivatives, yoghurt, rice etc but NO fresh greens or salad -- the food court at typical shopping malls has similar Indian food which is OK occasionally IMO but seems to be devoid of any greens and simple salad.

Indians seem to survive on it but I contest that it is inherently "healthy" especially for children (the local paper here gave a big wrap to the school for it's great food ) -- Eskimos have not died out on a diet of raw blubber either but their diet is not described as the 'ideal'.

Is milk 'banned' for children? (only soy was on offer at Erasmus )

Any other comments about diet and health? And isn't disease just a case of karma anyway ?
Skeptic

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Stanton
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Postby Stanton » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:42 am

Bonsai - there is a danger of the State regulating everything and so closing off alternatives that it may not approve of. A free-for-all in medicine is also obviously undesirable. There has to be a balance here and it has, for example, largely been struck in acupuncture through self-regulation, by far the better regulation if it comes to it. In other words, if someone studies for, and passes, an examination and practical work (approved) then he or she should be free to practise.

I'm not completely up to date on this but there was a lively debate a few years back about doctors practising acupuncture after only a few weekends' course work. Acupuncturists - who may spend up to three years studying (admittedly part-time) - were up in arms at this - as they saw it - cavalier approach to their discipline. The State, naturally, approved of doctors practising acupuncture.

So a balance has to be struck between the protection of patients and the freedom to practise with all its attendant benefits.

mm-
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Postby mm- » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:59 am

Has anyone any comments on the health effects of the "vegetarian" diet espoused by the SES and served in the schools


Our family is not vegetarian and my daughter left nursery eating a varied diet which included meat.

Since she has been at St James, she refuses to eat any kind of meat and becomes very distressed if meat is put on the plate. She survives solely on milk, bread, cheese, potatoes, rice, pasta and pizza and will eat nothing else. As a result of this poor diet, she has had various stomach complaints and has been under the care of a gastroenteroligist.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:34 pm

Pizza - now yes, there's a food group! :)

What are the dictates of the SES diet? Being a vegetarian involves far more than just not eating meat. You really need a good working knowledge of nutrition etc. to get the balance just right.

MM one of my relo's kids also suffers from bouts of gastrointenstinal problems.
Relatives with long-term involvement in the SES / SOP/ SoEP

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bella
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Postby bella » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:59 pm

MM, why does your girl not eat vegetables (apart from potato)? I dunno - I was usually ordered to "eat my vegetables", and my son doesn't have much choice on the matter either, unless he wants to go to bed hungry. He doesn't go to a philosophy school, and hasn't really had any "vegetarian teaching", but he's gone off a lot of meat of his own accord, although he'll eat some varieties in some dishes. Meat's pretty much the only area where he's allowed to pick and choose to any degree, though. FTR, he's eight.

AntonR
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Postby AntonR » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:45 am

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Stanton
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Postby Stanton » Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:43 am

MM's child could surely eat fruit, vegetables and nuts - her diet at the moment is very carbohydrate. Try innocent drinks - which are delicious - to bump up her fruit intake. Oh - and get in the marmite too if she likes it.
We always drank wine on residentials - just one glass in the evening. The diet described here is the fiercest I've heard of - honey from a spoon only? It rings a faint bell but even by the time I left in 1989 the diet had widened considerably.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:28 am

You left the SES in '89 stanton? Why?

And what was the diet then?
Relatives with long-term involvement in the SES / SOP/ SoEP

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Ben W
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Diet

Postby Ben W » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:52 am

The diet Anton describes is exactly as I remember it. When I first joined SES the diet had only just been introduced. The instruction from the East of "Eat whatever you like as long as it is fresh" was still ringing in the ears. The new diet (which is from the Gospel of St James I think - or maybe St Thomas) was pretty unpopular.

(My mum talks about Mrs Beaton's recipes book being popular at Stanhill prior this.)

Shortly after this we had the "no more than 5 flavours" rule introduced - ie you could have Bread, butter, and cheese = 3, plus bread, butter and honey = 1 more, plus an apple, but then only water to drink.

Later we had the no more than 4 foods rule - with Bread and butter = 1 food - and at the same time no more than 1 flavour at a time - with bread+butter the only exception to this.

I remember at Sarum Chase the kids discovered "Bread + butter + cheese + honey" - and we used to hide the honey under the cheese so that we could sneak in a 6th flavour. Once the 4 foods rule came in it was more difficult. As a concession we were sometimes allowed bread+butter+cheese, but I missed my entire lunch once when the leader, Mrs S, caught me trying to put some honey under the cheese.

Mrs S - she was a lovely lady. Lived at Waterperry with her Husband Bernard? whom I never really interracted with. Had a beautiful daughter called Yolande, a son called Paul - my age and who damn near broke my nose once boxing outdoors up in the circle at the top of the garden, and a younger son called Ollie. (I think there was another too.) I heard she eventually left him and SES. I hope she is OK.
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years


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