'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
ses-surviver
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby ses-surviver » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11 am

Tootsie wrote:The best time to indoctrinate a person in a lifetime of belief and devotion to religious dogma is when they are young. Hence the Jesuit motto "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man." So the blame is not on the children but on the parents who send their children to such schools. Thank heaven for free spirits like Clara who can buck the system and her parents and publish her experiences in a book. Its books like hers and Peter Hounam & Andrew Hogg Secret Cult that will change school.

I do wonder if the SES will view this as just another 'Shot across the bows', keep its head down and hope that the media interest blows over.

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bonsai
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:27 am

ses-surviver wrote:I do wonder if the SES will view this as just another 'Shot across the bows', keep its head down and hope that the media interest blows over.


Well judging by the fact that there are legal reporting restrictions in place, I would imagine not. It seems to be attempting to take mitigating actions before the media storm starts and fighting the criticism.

Unfortunately this is not what it should be doing. It should be reforming and ensuring that safe guards are put in place to ensure that its members and all those who come in contact with its teachings are not adversley affected. But as an organisation it still doesn't get what the problem is! It blindly pursues its aims, regardless of criticism levelled at it, in the belief that their truth can do no harm.

I look forward to reading Clara's book and the detective game that we are all going to play trying to map her fictional characters onto the teachers we were taught by. From the radio interview there was the Greek teacher who was not part of the organisation. Am I correct in thinking that this is based on Miss West? I think she taught classics and was not an SES member, though of course the time that Clara was in St James was significantly before my time. ...Oh ...and I went to the boys school.

Bonsai

Daffy
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Daffy » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:11 pm

bonsai wrote:there are legal reporting restrictions in place

I think it should be pointed out that neither of the newspaper articles stated or implied that the SES has taken any formal legal action to prevent the SES being mentioned in connection with the book. I suspect it's more a case of the publishers and/or the newspapers responding to the SES' heavy-handed approach as mentioned in the Guardian article:
In the last few weeks something extraordinary has happened. The organisation found out that I have written a novel – a thriller – inspired by my childhood experiences and wrote to my publishers checking that the book would be carrying the "all characters are fictitious" disclaimer. They also asked for a pre-publication copy of the book to see whether they would need to take legal advice.

It would be normal for publishers who in such circumstances to want to get the book published and distributed without having to fight an application for an injunction, even if the application would have little chance of success.

So I don't think people should be afraid to mention this book or its connection with the SES, St James and St Vedast - it's simply the publishers being more cautious than the rest of us need to be.

Tom Grubb
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Tom Grubb » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:31 pm

ET wrote:How interesting! On the website link that Tom posted, the ERT says that she pulled out "because of the death of her son". Maybe that's the reason she gave them, I suppose, but if not, then they really are shameless in exploiting her personal tragedy to make themselves look better.


I wonder if that's really the reason she gave them.

Let me say first of all that I respect Libby Purves, her journalism and her integrity, and I was sad to learn about the tragic death of her son. My suspicion about her alleged reason for pulling out of the conference is entirely directed at the SES and its propaganda machine.

Some facts:

The ERT Cconference was held on 30th November 2006. http://www.education-renaissance-trust.org.uk/teacher03.htm

Libby Purves's son died on 26th June 2006. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libby_Purves
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/dec/09/culture.poetry

In September 2006 she returned to presenting the Radio 4 programme, 'Midweek'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/midweek_20060906.shtml

Apart from one programme (broadcast on 18th October 2006) she continued to present 'Midweek' every week for the rest of the year.

An episode of 'Midweek' was broadcast the day before the ERT conference. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/midweek_20061129.shtml

She continued to write newspaper articles throughout 2006. Some examples:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/libby_purves/article692210.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/libby_purves/article1073507.ece
http://www.campaignforadventure.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=54http://www.derekwyattmp.co.uk/news_item.aspx?i_PageID=114970

She continued to attend speaking engagements, including one at the Royal Geographical Society in September 2006: http://www.wildcamels.com/news16.htm http://www.wildcamels.com/news17.htm

I attempted to contact Libby Purves (not an easy task, as it turned out) shortly before the ERT conference to tell her about the findings of the Townend Inquiry and to give her more information about the ERT. She did not reply to my email so she may not have received it.

As sugarloaf says, she was handed a leaflet (which told the truth about the ERT and the Townend Inquiry) outside the ERT conference. She then entered the building briefly before coming back out and leaving.

Given these facts, it does seem strange that, as the ERT's website puts it, Libby Purves "had to pull out of being our opening speaker, due to the sad death of her son."

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bonsai
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:24 pm

To complete the picture that the press are unable to do. Clara's father is Clement Salaman, who taught history at the St James boys school until he retired.

He was then a governor of St James until recently. He was certainly a governor whilst the Townend inquiry was going on.

Clara's form teacher was the headmistress of St James girls, Shiela Caldwell.

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ET
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby ET » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:49 am

bonsai wrote:From the radio interview there was the Greek teacher who was not part of the organisation. Am I correct in thinking that this is based on Miss West?


I was there at roughly the same time as Clara (she was about 4 years ahead of me) and I think that the Greek teacher is much more likely to have been Mr Rasmussen. Mrs West was a sadistic woman who was indeed part of the SES (as far as I know). I am partly basing this guess on the fact that Clara gave him a "foreign" accent when she quoted him saying: "Shame on you, Clara Salaman, shame on you!" in her radio interview. I think he was either German or American - isn't it amazing what you forget as you grow up? Very frustrating.
Pupil at St James Girl's School from 1979-1989, from age 4-14. Parents ex-members of SES.

Daffy
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Daffy » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:54 am

Will Rasmussen is definitely American. Though your German alternative is understandable as he did have a passing resemblance to Herr Flick of the Gestapo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herr_Otto_Flick).

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bonsai
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:58 am

Interesting. Rasmussen is an SES member, though I guess it is possible that he wasn't in the SES when he first started teaching but certainly these days Rasmussen is as SES as they come.

Clara says in the interview that this Greek teacher was not a member of The Organisation.

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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Daffy » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:21 am

Rasmussen was definitely a SES member, and fervent believer, from the start of his time as a St James teacher.

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Postby Free » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:26 pm

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bonsai
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:22 am

Just to say, my copy has arrived.

I wasn't expecting it for another week.

Bonsai

Daffy
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Daffy » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:04 am

I think it will be interesting and fun to match the fictional characters, places, organisations etc against their real life alter egos, together with any other relevant observations. Anyone who has the book please dive in!

I don't have the book yet, but from the publisher's book notes (http://www.penguin.com.au/lookinside/re ... 918409.pdf) I see the main character went to a school called St Augustine's:

Fictional school: St Augustine's
Real school: St James
St Augustine's was the Anglican church across the road from St James' School in Queens Gate, South Kensington, where assembly and other church services were held.

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bonsai
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:18 am

Just from Reading page 1, this greek teacher does sound like Will Rasmussen

Fictional teacher: Mr Steinberg
Real school: Will Rasmussen
Male, Classics teacher, American, round glasses

Can I also make a plea as people start writing about the book that any posts that may give away the plot are marked at the top of them that it contains spoilers.

I know we all have to wait for our orders to be fulfilled and that we all probably read at different speeds.

Bonsai

Matthew
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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Matthew » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:55 am

I have difficulty with reading books dating back to my experiences at St Vedast/SES. Oh the irony. So I'll be relying on updates here.

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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby daska » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:35 pm

Up to page 30 and still to read anything that sounds remotely fictional (except the names)...


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