'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
User avatar
ET
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:49 am
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby ET » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:08 am

Wow, trubleshtr, that's a massive decision. Good luck, and don't forget we are all here on this board to support you.

Did anyone hear Clara interviewed on Midweek on Radio 4 this morning? It's such a shame that she can't name the SES or the schools or any of the people involved, as it really stopped her from being very coherent. The interviewer seemed genuinely surprised that she still speaks to her parents, let alone spends time with them!

They picked up on the way that we all had the same form teacher right the way through the school, and how much more difficult that made it if you and that particular teacher didn't get on, as in Clara's case. I had kind of forgotten about that, as due to staff leaving (one got married, one left the SES for a time) my class actually had three form teachers during my time there, so I guess it wasn't as much of an issue for me. I would be interested to hear other people's experiences of this.
Pupil at St James Girl's School from 1979-1989, from age 4-14. Parents ex-members of SES.

User avatar
bonsai
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am
Location: London

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:24 am

ET wrote:Did anyone hear Clara interviewed on Midweek on Radio 4 this morning?


For those that didn't you can listen to it here, http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00lxc6g

Not working for me right now but should be available in the next couple of hours or so.

Bonsai

Matthew
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:57 pm
Location: London

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Matthew » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:44 am

Plays fine now. Fast forward to about 23 minutes in for Clara's interview.

Tom Grubb
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:23 pm
Location: London

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Tom Grubb » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:01 pm

Yes, I sensed that she wanted to say much more but was hampered by "legal reasons". Interesting that she was interviewed by Libby Purves, who was scheduled to be a key speaker at a conference organised by the SES's Education Renaissance Trust back in 2006. She pulled out. http://www.education-renaissance-trust.org.uk/teacher03.htm

trubleshtr
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby trubleshtr » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:56 pm

Thanks for your support ET. I may attend Donald Lambie's beginning of year lecture in September to see if any of this has had an effect on attitudes towards gender. I had only intended to give it one more term anyway.

I am also trying to find out more about the Holy man the SES are in contact with, Shri Vasudevananda, and his political connections in India. Donald Lambie, Shane Mulhall and Barry Steingard were due to meet with him last year but it had to be aborted due to the trouble in Mumbai and is being reorganised I understand.

I think Clara's book may have a profound effect on the SES and St James schools, and if it forces those in charge to shift their ground and to become more transparent that will be a good thing in my opinion.

I have been disappointed in the response to the abuse of the children in the past and the attitude of some current members of the organisation of putting this down to 'mistakes', it was much more than that, and your stories ET in particular were so upsetting because of the obviously sadistic behaviour of one of the teachers. The title of the book says it all.

User avatar
bonsai
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am
Location: London

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:12 pm

trubleshtr wrote:The title of the book says it all.


The title of the book does say it all. I was particularly struck by the discussion on the title on the Midweek program. Here Clara made a very strong reference to "sheep mentality" that everyone let it happen.

Everyone can and could see what was going on but just let it happen.

Bonsai

Tootsie
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:37 pm

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Tootsie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:19 pm

I listened to Clara's interview, and her description of pupils having 'sheep mentality' sure rang a bell with me. One more book she has sold! I think there is a book in all ex-schoolers but the general public would think we were all crazy to stay in an organisation that had similar views as the Taliban with regard to the treatment of women. Although I must admit the burqa never caught on in the school.

User avatar
bonsai
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am
Location: London

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:53 pm

I think the 'sheep mentality' issue was directed more so at the members of the SES who would have been so well aware of issues happening at St James and St Vedasts but who chose not to raise issues.

I don't think you can hold any child pupil of these schools responsible for that sheep mentality as they do not yet understand or know that the regime and environment that they are being taught in is wrong, though they may know that it is different.

Clara does raise the issue of the sense of betrayal of those pupils who have gone on to retain an involvement with the SES and the St James's schools in the guardian article. On the St James front, not only are there a number of former pupils who teach at the school, there are now at least three former pupils on the board of governors. This may be a sheep mentality issue though this has to be assessed on their motives for taking these roles and what they endeavour and manage to change.

Bonsai

StVSurvivor
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:04 pm

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby StVSurvivor » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:18 pm

trubleshtr wrote:I am also trying to find out more about the Holy man the SES are in contact with, Shri Vasudevananda, and his political connections in India. Donald Lambie, Shane Mulhall and Barry Steingard were due to meet with him last year but it had to be aborted due to the trouble in Mumbai and is being reorganised I understand.

Sounds like you've been fed more SES spin and lies I'm afraid.

The reason the trip was aborted had nothing whatsoever to do with the trouble in Mumbai, which is nowhere near Shri Vasudevananda's location. In fact this "holy man" hadn't actually agreed to see them but they decided to travel to India anyway, then when they got there he refused to give them an audience, saying that they weren't yet at an elevated enough level of consciousness to be worthy of his time and that they should go away and improve themselves.

Then when they returned to England the SES put out the story that Troubleshooter was fed above and that in fact this guru was not authentic and had a criminal record. Later on Roger Pincham's two daughters visited another "holy man" at a different Indian ashram, and he is now arranging for this latest guru to meet with Lambie et al.

See http://www.ses-forums.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=690 for further details.
Last edited by StVSurvivor on Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

trubleshtr
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby trubleshtr » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:31 pm

Dear StVSurvivor, Now I am confused. Shri Vasudevananda took over from Shantanda Saraswati as I understand it. No one in the SES has said that he is a criminal that I know of. There are reports that he may be involved with right wing politics in India though which is what I want to find out about. The information that I was given about the trip of the three of them was given at a meeting of 200 or so SES senior members in January 2009. Please if you have any proof of this lets have it. When did Pinchams daughters go and who is this other new Holy man? If you can shed any more light on this it would help a lot. Thanks.
Last edited by trubleshtr on Wed May 23, 2012 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bonsai
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am
Location: London

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby bonsai » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:39 pm

May I suggest that this discussion regarding Shri Vasudevananda be moved to a separate thread so as not to dilute this topic or the topic of Clara Salaman's book.

Bonsai

Tootsie
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:37 pm

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby Tootsie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:21 pm

The best time to indoctrinate a person in a lifetime of belief and devotion to religious dogma is when they are young. Hence the Jesuit motto "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man." So the blame is not on the children but on the parents who send their children to such schools. Thank heaven for free spirits like Clara who can buck the system and her parents and publish her experiences in a book. Its books like hers and Peter Hounam & Andrew Hogg Secret Cult that will change school.

In my humble opinion school is being unmasked and no amount of fancy lawyers will save it. The golden rule tells us to love our neighbours as our self, if we truly loved ourselves we would see the unity behind everything and could not rule by fear. The leaders of school should look into their own hearts for wisdom and not outside for some Guru.

StVSurvivor
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:04 pm

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby StVSurvivor » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:34 pm

Tootsie wrote:The best time to indoctrinate a person in a lifetime of belief and devotion to religious dogma is when they are young. Hence the Jesuit motto "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man." So the blame is not on the children but on the parents who send their children to such schools. Thank heaven for free spirits like Clara who can buck the system and her parents and publish her experiences in a book. Its books like hers and Peter Hounam & Andrew Hogg Secret Cult that will change school.

In my humble opinion school is being unmasked and no amount of fancy lawyers will save it. The golden rule tells us to love our neighbours as our self, if we truly loved ourselves we would see the unity behind everything and could not rule by fear. The leaders of school should look into their own hearts for wisdom and not outside for some Guru.

What she said.

sugarloaf
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:40 am

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby sugarloaf » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:03 pm

Yes, I sensed that she wanted to say much more but was hampered by "legal reasons". Interesting that she was interviewed by Libby Purves, who was scheduled to be a key speaker at a conference organised by the SES's Education Renaissance Trust back in 2006. She pulled out. http://www.education-renaissance-trust. ... cher03.htm


Thanks Tom,

Yes she was handed a leaflet outside the conference that highlighted the fact that the then chair of St James Governors had refused to resign following the abuse findings in his school, and that Nicholas Debenham, the Head teacher throughout that period was, and still is, the Chair of Trustees of the ERT, overseeing the spread of the St James educational approach throughout the world.

Glad that she walked out on them that day, and now ends up hosting Clara on her show.

After all that's gone on I really find it hard to believe (though I shouldn't) that it's Debenham himself that's now spearheading the expansion of SES childrens education. If he had been running a state school he would now probably be in prison! only in the SES...

Particularly odious is his attempt to infect mainstream UK education, through SES run inset days in state school classrooms. I presume that he no longer sanctions physical violence and verbal humiliation as part of his programme, but who knows - as he never accepted he oversaw it for at least ten years when running a school himself. He has never apologized, shown any remorse, or even accepted the inquiries findings, so I guess its no surprise he hasn't resigned from his position as head of the ERT. Speaks volumes about the whole SES organisation's real attitude to their abusive past. Its there in black and white for anyone to see....there are still a LOT of sheep..

I think that's 'shame on you' Nicholas Debenham!

User avatar
ET
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:49 am
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Postby ET » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:50 am

sugarloaf wrote:Yes she was handed a leaflet outside the conference that highlighted the fact that the then chair of St James Governors had refused to resign following the abuse findings in his school, and that Nicholas Debenham, the Head teacher throughout that period was, and still is, the Chair of Trustees of the ERT, overseeing the spread of the St James educational approach throughout the world.

Glad that she walked out on them that day, and now ends up hosting Clara on her show.


How interesting! On the website link that Tom posted, the ERT says that she pulled out "because of the death of her son". Maybe that's the reason she gave them, I suppose, but if not, then they really are shameless in exploiting her personal tragedy to make themselves look better.
Pupil at St James Girl's School from 1979-1989, from age 4-14. Parents ex-members of SES.


Return to “St James and St Vedast”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest