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Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:11 pm
by bonsai

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:53 pm
by daska
More references to yogurt! I remember the first time I encountered SES yogurt: Sunday school at Sarum Chase, with Reg Stead (dad of the latest Mrs Ian Mason). I seem to remember enjoying it, but I always made sure I loaded the bowl up with dark brown sugar before putting the yogurt in, by the time I came to eat it the colour was that of dark coffee! It never gets eaten in my house unless heavily disguised with mint or mango and served with a hot curry :-)

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:21 pm
by Daffy

That review is excellent - and the comments by 'Rachel' that follow it are absolutely spot on. I suspect 'Rachel' is a member of this board, so if you are out there, I encourage you to post these comments in this thread as well.

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:31 am
by Matthew
Interesting posts here recently. I dont contribute as much these days but all I'll say in response is that anger (hatred even) can be a tremendously positive force when channeled correctly. So if that's what Clara has achieved with her book then good on her!

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:21 am
by Matthew
Well unfortunately Caldwell and MacLaren are no longer with us to acknowledge and face up to their pasts (although judging by D. Van Oyen's biography, the latter's last few months were filled with inner-torment).

As for the rest of them, sadly, they still appear to have their heads very firmly...
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Re: On Will Rasmussen

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:33 pm
by Just someone
Free wrote:Will Rasmussen is an American who lives permanently in London. He left SES in 2002 after 27 years, over his effort to liberalise the curriculum for his SES students, including relaxing dress, social and spiritual requirements. Lambie opposed him and ultimately pushed him out; thereafter he was shunned by all his former SES “friends”. In subsequent years he struggled with and overcame many of the psychological and familial costs of his years in SES. He completed a PhD and currently teaches at Kings College. He has always been a thoughtful, empathetic and caring man. It is emblematic of his character that he is one of the few former St James teachers who has met with and apologised to those former students seeking him out.


I knew Will Rasmussen from his early times in ses - part 4, I'd guess.
He was so obviously a kind man, who listened caringly to people.
I'm surprised he stuck it out for so long, given he was trying to help change the practices: tough going.

Well done, Will & my best wishes.

(sorry if it's just reviving an old thread for present readers, but maybe Will reads this forum ...)

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:19 pm
by Mikew
If you read the article carefully it says: "and it has come in the form of Clara’s gripping, partly autobiographical novel Shame On You. "

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/art ... z0vppNesEt

Partly autobiographical which means the reader has no idea what is the truth and what is fiction.

Also keep in mind this article for some reason leaves out this bit of information "partly autobiographical"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... ra-salaman

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:17 pm
by daska
Mikew wrote:If you read the article carefully it says: "and it has come in the form of Clara’s gripping, partly autobiographical novel Shame On You. "

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/art ... z0vppNesEt

Partly autobiographical which means the reader has no idea what is the truth and what is fiction.

Also keep in mind this article for some reason leaves out this bit of information "partly autobiographical"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... ra-salaman


"partly autobiographical" also means that there are parts that a number of readers KNOW to be true.

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:35 pm
by Mikew
Yes DASKA I'm sure there are things in the book that are true. The problem is we don't know for sure what is true and what isn't. As you said "we" know what is true. Great but not everyone has your knowledge.

In these books there are some things that are true and many things are not.

Even worse some things have could have been exaggerated to make the story more interesting.

It’s not right to expose the SES or any other organization with possible half truths and exaggerations.

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:28 pm
by Just someone
Mikew wrote:
It’s not right to expose the SES or any other organization with possible half truths and exaggerations.


You've got to smile, really.
Better than steam from the ears!

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:34 pm
by daska
Mikew wrote:Yes DASKA I'm sure there are things in the book that are true. The problem is we don't know for sure what is true and what isn't. As you said "we" know what is true. Great but not everyone has your knowledge.

In these books there are some things that are true and many things are not.

Even worse some things have could have been exaggerated to make the story more interesting.

It’s not right to expose the SES or any other organization with possible half truths and exaggerations.


LOL - but it's OK for the SES to besmirch others reputations with "half truths and exaggerations" as they did every member of this forum? (BTW that now includes you)

Anyway... You have misquoted me - was that deliberate? I didn't refer to 'We'.

Some people on this forum will recognise which bits are true in their experience. Unless you are Clara then you can't claim to know, only to believe.

There will, no doubt, be other people who read the book, read the articles and visit this forum who don't know anything about Clara and they will choose which bits they think most likely to be true and which bits are most likely to be false. Their choice, they can always go along to the SES and pay to find out...

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:08 pm
by Mikew
Daska & Just Some - you missed the whole point.

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:40 pm
by daska
Mikew wrote:Daska & Just Some - you missed the whole point.


If two people miss the whole point then the correct response is:

"Sorry, my bad, my first post was obviously ambiguously worded. What I really meant to say was..."

Your turn

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:52 pm
by morrigan
Clara used different names and didn't write it 100% exact, but wrote and composed to make it both interesting and about the truth of what was going on - she did well IMO. Lots have recognised and posted about that reality and others have read it, some from SES and others who'd never experienced it - lots of learning. And, of course, many of the actual atm SES were not pleased about it either.

Re: 'Shame on You' by Clara Salaman

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:26 pm
by daska
morrigan wrote:Clara used different names and didn't write it 100% exact, but wrote and composed to make it both interesting and about the truth of what was going on - she did well IMO. Lots have recognised and posted about that reality and others have read it, some from SES and others who'd never experienced it - lots of learning. And, of course, many of the actual atm SES were not pleased about it either.


I agree, I found it a good read, it even made me laugh! But given that the SES isn't exactly short of lawyers or money I think it was a sensible choice to write about it under the guise of fiction as it gave her scope to write about real people and events without claiming that every word was true. People who read the book and want to find out more will look for more information; they'll quite probably find the reviews on Amazon and if they google the author and title this forum comes up third in the results.