The Melbourne School

Discussion of the SES' satellite schools in Australia and New Zealand.
mm-
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Postby mm- » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:35 pm

The affordability of the annual fees, including working off a great deal off the amount, seemed too good to be true


Hi Temp Duped,

I didn't realise non-ses members were allowed to do this. While it is more than obvious here in London that SES members do work at the school to pay off fees, I did not realise that this extended to non-SES, nor have I ever been approached to do such a thing. I have known some families have to leave as they were unable to pay fees.

Just out of interest, what kinds of things were you expected to do, to work off fees, and did most parents work off fees?

You know what they say....if something seems to good to be true it probably is !

Like you, I'm so relieved to be out of there. My kids are finally getting back to normal. Like you I am still deeply affected by it all.

Bella. Glad to know that you think parents having to chase info on other schools is FUN. That parents now feel the need to scrutinise every other school because of the deceit displayed at the hands of SES operated schools is rather sad, wouldn't you agree? Personally, I feel your remark reeks of the arrogance and condescending manner often associated with some members of your most unpleasant group, and which I have unfortunately been subjected to more than once.

anti_ses
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Postby anti_ses » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:47 pm

mm- wrote:Personally, I feel your remark reeks of the arrogance and condescending manner often associated with some members of your most unpleasant group, and which I have unfortunately been subjected to more than once.

Personally, I feel Bella's remark is perfectly justified. Just because she doesn't agree with you or your actions doesn't maker her arrogant or condescending. If you feel offended by those few words in her last post, then you are very easily offended. That's not her fault.

mm-
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Postby mm- » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:41 pm

Anti-SES wrote

Personally, I feel Bella's remark is perfectly justified.


Really, I'm sure most of us who have been affected by the SES and their schools aren't having much fun trying to piece our lives and the lives of our children together as a result of the SES and their dishonesty.

Actually, I don't think I'm easily offended...I just don't share Bella's sense of humour.

ADG and Temp Duped are having to ensure that their children attend an upfront and honest establishment, which means having to go through the rather laborious and tedious process of scrutinising any prospective school. This is as a direct result of having been through the rather horrible ordeal of having been caught out in a web of lies spun by the SES and its schools. As someone that has gone trough the same ordeal I can assure you it is not fun and is certainly no laughing matter.

More worryingly though I feel that her remarks imply that really she doesn't understand how distraught some parents are and how some are still deeply affected by what they and their children have been and are going through. If she had one iota of a clue she would perhaps choose her words more carefully and be less flippant.

I repeat, it is this flippancy that I have unfortunately experienced at the hands of some ( not all) SES members. I view it as arrogant and condescending. You might not agree with me but that is my own opinion, which I am also entitled to hold. It is also worthwhile noting that this arrogance and condescending manner has also been displayed most recently by Mr Boddy and his potters wheel analogy and by all the governors of the schools who to this day still harbour teachers who have been found guilty of cruelty towards children.

.

anti_ses
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Postby anti_ses » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:12 pm

mm- wrote:It is also worthwhile noting that this arrogance and condescending manner has also been displayed most recently by Mr Boddy and his potters wheel analogy and by all the governors of the schools who to this day still harbour teachers who have been found guilty of cruelty towards children.

Perhaps you should pay some attention to the flippancy of your own remarks. Nobody has been found guilty of anything, unless you proclaim yourself as judge.

Free
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Postby Free » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:08 pm

<delete>
Last edited by Free on Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:54 pm

MM - just to clear things up, my interest in the primary schools does not stem from having sent my own kids to one - my concern is about my SOP/SES relative's kids going to one.

And I think you misintepretated Bella's comment - I just took it to mean she was bowing out of the conversation (but perhaps I am wrong?).

TD - can you be more specific about the fee situation? If you don't want to post publicly, please send me a PM.

As to investigating schools - I think parents should do this anyway. I visited a number of primary schools in my area (including one that was the 'popular' one and 'zoned' - us being outside that zone). Funnily enough, the one I felt was the best was NOT the popular one. And the school WAS a good school, waas very happy with it, and funnily enough, its rep had grown so much that it too became 'zoned".

The problem with investigating the SOP schools here is the lack of information from the SOP themselves about their beleif system.
Relatives with long-term involvement in the SES / SOP/ SoEP

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bella
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Postby bella » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:20 am

ADG is right. As I said to someone when they queried my last post by PM - I'm just bowing out of this thread. There's no point pitting experience against experience and trying to find an overarching truth. Yours was true for you, mine was true for me. People screwed up at your childrens' schools, and continue to do so - all I can do is offer a foil to the blanket statements about what "the SES/SOP" condones and believes. And with this setup, we're not getting anywhere - as evidenced, the possibility of me coming off as "arrogant/condescending/flippant" is all too real when I don't share your experience. Me saying "have fun" was me saying "See you guys elsewhere, I see we're going round in circles." Yes, I've always been a bit cavalier, even before I joined the school. I actually don't think I'm particularly insensitive, and I do apologise if you felt your experience was minimised by my posting.

On a different note, thanks for tarring me with the same brush as unrepentant child abusers. That was a nice touch.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:01 pm

as evidenced, the possibility of me coming off as "arrogant/condescending/flippant" is all too real when I don't share your experience


Cultural differences bella. Happens all the time on the net unless we get REALLY boring and speak (type) american standard english. But hey, who wants that??

Give MM a chance to clock it down to a misinerpretation and aplogise. As a pom she should KNOW us aussies speak a bit differently :) The word "root" being a prime example ;)
Relatives with long-term involvement in the SES / SOP/ SoEP

mm-
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Postby mm- » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:16 pm

OK..perhaps I misread Bellas post.... and it was a little unfair tarring Bella with the same brush as some other members of the SES. Obviously as a reasonable person I DO realise that actually there is a little bit of good and bad everywhere and that being a member of the SES or party to it's beliefs does not necessarily mean that you are a bad person.

I have decided not to post on this BB anymore as I find it painful and feel that in some ways it holds me back from getting on with life and picking up the pieces. As a family we have decided to move on. My feelings and thoughts on the SES, their dishonesty and their lack of transparancy remains. Most importantly that they do harbour adults who have been cruel to children and allow them to continue at the schools is a fact. This is untenable and will continue to be so until the governors decide to do the correct thing.

Anyway, I want to thank everyone who has posted on this BB. Without it I would not have removed my children from an SES run school and all the problems that, that could have brought for my family and I. Without this BB I would have effectively been in the dark, and for that I am very appreciative. I also want to thank those that have kindly PM'd me (both SES and non-SES)over the last couple of months and given me the little bit of strength that was needed when it mattered the most.

I wish you all well.

mgormez
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Postby mgormez » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:04 pm

Bon voyage MM! I wish you and your family all the best. I can understand why you need to break away. Speaking for myself I am glad you have found this BB to be of any help.

Btw, I was the one who asked Bella about that statement and days ago she said the same to me, no point in pitting experience against experience. And I agree, you each had and have your own.

All the best.
Mike Gormez

Temporarily Duped
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Location: Australia

Bye mm

Postby Temporarily Duped » Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:10 am

mm

Thanking you for your support over the year. I'm sorry to hear of your departure but i do understand about the holding you back part and that you feel it is time to get on with it.

Your posts have been enormously helpful and i have valued them.

Good luck with the future. Your children are very fortunate to have an intelligent and caring parent such as yourself. I wish them the very best.
Last edited by Temporarily Duped on Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

sly_gryphon
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby sly_gryphon » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:46 pm

(regarding John Colet School, in Belrose, Sydney, Australia)
a different guest wrote:It is known in the area as the school you DON'T send kids too if you want them to 'learn to read and write and do maths'.


Interesting -- I was under the impression that the school generally did better than average in these skill areas.

At least, according to the school's 2005 Annual Report (http://www.johncolet.nsw.edu.au/policies.php) they are significantly above average.

Year 3 Basic Skills Test, percentage (of school vs state) in Band 5 (top band)

year JCS NSW
2000 45 15
2001 55 17
2002 76.5 16.9
2003 25 13.1
2004 76.9 11.9
2005 61.5 17

Year 5 Basic Skills Test, percentage (of school vs state) in Band 6 (top band)

year JCS NSW
2000 30 20
2001 35 23
2002 70 25
2003 60 24
2004 68.4 18.4
2005 50 21.5


Maybe the tests are flawed and testing the wrong thing. Maybe the learning at JCS is aimed at passing the tests. Maybe they cheated. Maybe the school report is just lying.

If, however, you take them at face value, if up to 75% are in the top band in the state that kinda makes it difficult to support them having poor teaching?

Can anyone with more knowledge of the NSW Australia Basic Skills Test shed some light on this?

My only thought was that the quote could actually be "don't send kids too if you want them to _ONLY_ 'learn to read and write and do maths'" as the children also study Shakespeare, philosophy (albiet the schools Hindu version), sanskrit, etc -- stuff not normally taught in schools.

- Sly

sly_gryphon
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Postby sly_gryphon » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:15 pm

a different guest wrote:TD - as you are in the biz, do you know if there is a way to find out home much Federal and State money the SES primary schools are being given? Also is it possible to find out their scores on Basic Skills Test (NSW) and AIMS (Vic)?


See my post (probably the one above) for the NSW BST info I found in the John Colet web site -- it seems quite high (but I'm not an expert on the BST).

Government funding of private schools also appears to be accessible on the web (Google finds a bunch of documents by searching for "john colet school site:dest.gov.au")

Current funding amounts are in the document:
http://schoolgrg.dest.gov.au/Help/SESIn ... 3-2008.pdf

John Colet school is ranked #2,479 (out of 2,652 for 2003) for funding of non-government schools in Australia, at AUD $2,344 per student (for 2003). So that puts it pretty low on the list of subsidy. (There are around 115 students, so this adds up to around AUD $250,000)

The school annual report (download from http://johncolet.nsw.edu.au/policies.php) as well as having BST information, also gives some high level details of the school budget.

It looks like total goverment grants for 2005 was around $500,000, with $800,000 from fees (including interest on capital bond).

Note that the school website also provides access to the range of school policies, for example their discipline policy, which seems fairly comprehensive even if it does range from philosophical meanderings (their Hindu philosophy, that is) through to specific detail on rewards and management strategies and principles. (The policy available was revised 2005, but originally dated from 2000).

I hope my searching the 'net answered your questions.

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:33 am

Thank you sly - a nice bit of net-searching/fact finding there. And welcome to the board. Can I ask where your interest in this board stems from?

Re the BST - it could well be that the kids have been 'coached' - they would not be the first school to do this. You also have to consider how low the standard is for these tests. The key word in BST is "basic". Any school in a nice leafy area drawing in kids from nice middle class parents will probably be shown to be doing quite well.

and I certainly did not mis-hear the quote about the standards of literacy/numeracy teaching at the school - the comment was about kids who had been kicked out or withdrawn who, when going into a new school were found to be well behind. Hmm, that's another way they can up their performance indicators isn't it? Get rid of the kids who might drag down their averages.

And keep in mind that all but one of the teachers are ONLY 'dip eds'. Maybe OK for high school, but hardly ideal for a primary school to be staffed almost entirely by teachers who only have a 1 year diploma under their belt.
Relatives with long-term involvement in the SES / SOP/ SoEP

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bonsai
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Postby bonsai » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:38 am

sly_gryphon wrote:The school annual report (download from http://johncolet.nsw.edu.au/policies.php) as well as having BST information, also gives some high level details of the school budget.


This is a very interesting page and all SES related schools should take note especially St James London. This is an attempt by John Colet school to be clear, honest and upfront and all school shoulds publish these types of documents to understand how children are going to be taught and influenced under their care.

Bonsai


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