Anyone remember the Glenn Hoddle faux pas?

[ems]

It's taken me ages to skim the surface of posts here - time for me is pretty short these days with two small kiddiewinks, but I have been a lurker for a while. Before I get carried away....
As the title suggests....does anyone remember Glenn Hoddle's attempts to spiritualise England football management? He was caught commenting on the reasons people born with disabilities are born this way, that it's because they have bad sanscara of somesort? I've just been perusing some of the sanskrit uses (?) comments on the board and came across one of those SES goodies - bad sanscara. I still struggle to agree on that score that people can cast judgement about somebody's unproven and purely speculative past as cause for their current suffering or disadvantaged state of affairs.
Anyway, I didn't fully intend on a huge debate, but I do think that whether or not you believe in sanscara you'd do wise not to comment in public about your judgements of others less fortunate. These days we live in an ever increasing nanny state where freedom of speech is forever up for debate. As we know, your job and your credibility hangs on your every comment in the media's ever watchful eye. It seems that although it's safe to have private beliefs about sanscara it's not safe to air those thoughts in the wider public..... I can almost hear the SES reponse - the wider public are asleep..... that almost sets up the cult ethic straight away, where beliefs are secret and not up for open debate.
I've read (and know of first hand) of many cases where those who question the SES ethos or the material provided by Shri Shankasharia (when I was around) are ostrosised or considered ignorant, obtuse or obstructive to others in the group. This is definitely a thought control method, whether originally intended or not. If only it was considered healthy to question - perhaps SES would have done itself more favours by adopting this attitude....
Oh dear, I'm getting carried away.
I never realised this site would open such a can of worms.
There are so many things I want to say... most of them aren't philosophising, but with so little time on my hands, I hardly know where to start.
Just to say there'll be more from me soon, but I'd be interested to see some responses.
Hope you're all well
Ems

Ex St James pupil and child SES member[/img][/code]

[Free Thinker]

Hi Ems,

Welcome to the site!

I'm sure that you want to use your limited free time as usefully as possible, but I think that posting here has been so helpful to me that I would recommend it.

I hadn't heard of the man you speak of (I assume that he manages football?) but even without the free speech issue, he'd have been much better off keeping his mouth shut. People with disabilities are gaining more control, rights, and abilities to participate in all aspects of life as time goes on - they're not some fringe group you can still insult and get away with it.

I forsee an apology in the future...

[Stanton]

Yes, I still struggle with the disabilities issue but set in a wider context - how is it that some people are born with a silver spoon in their mouths and others are not? Just chance? But we're all so lucky in many ways - we could be living in a police state or in dire poverty.

[AntonR]

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[Stanton]

That's a cheap jibe, AntonR. Please give your explanation - if you have one - to a serious question.

[leon]

This quote is from an ex member I am in contact with, gives a good example of SES's teaching on disability.

"When asked why SES was so harsh on those with physical disabilities the tutor Mr Nash replied that so very evil were the past lives of the disabled, that a physical handicap was a sure sign that the afflicted individual was about to be eliminated from the human race, and would incarnate in the future as an animal. The Absolute then generously bestowed a disability as a last resort before condemning the miscreant to an animal form. Disability was therefore a sign of incipient sub humanity, and severe treatment was necessary, to underline the extreme gravity of the situation."

[AntonR]

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[leon]

I agree Anton and sympathise. When my sister died I was given no help at school by any teachers to help me through a very difficult time. I never received one word of support from any of them. I was however kicked thrown punched around as per usual for being late due to hospital visits etc by staff as if nothing was happening. In fact once alone at an SES group evening feeling distraught I was asked by a femal tutor assistant why I was upset. I replied my sister had just died. "People who die as children do so because of their sins. They deserve it. It is the will of the Absolute" came the reply.

[Stanton]

Your stories are horrific - I can only weep.
But I do ask you again - what is your explanation to a serious question?

[AntonR]

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[AntonR]

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[Goblinboy]

Yes, I still struggle with the disabilities issue but set in a wider context - how is it that some people are born with a silver spoon in their mouths and others are not? Just chance? But we're all so lucky in many ways - we could be living in a police state or in dire poverty.

I suspect that the most of people viewing this board have been born with the proverbial silver spoon in a relative sense - given that the majority of the world's population struggles to simply get enough to eat. And anyone who can attend St James or the other children's schools has command of fabulous wealth, in comparison to most of the rest of humanity.

And on the sanskara bit - again, it's the behaviour of the SES people that I find hard to understand - regardless of whether disabilities are the result of actions in past lives, genetics or supporting the wrong football team, why not offer compassion, rather than the cold dismissal of them as "sinners" or whatever?

[ems]

many thanx for responses and warm welcome from freethinker.
Some very interesting points - and thanx for providing meanings of the sanskrit word, AntonR.
Whether or not the teachings specify the cause and effect of bad sanskara (I guess 'karma' is the more mainstream word) I think it highly unwise for individual to cast judgement... surely if you believe in 'The Absolute' you believe it's a matter for the Absolute to understand and that it is not part of your function to make judgements. Surely being judgemental is small minded and clouds a true mind, preventing full realisation yadda yadda....
One of the quotes provided on teachers (sorry, can't remember who posted it, was it Leon?) hark back to the Aryan race ideologies, ethnic cleansing and notions that some are inferior to others (a point that I'm sure has been raised more than several times on this board already). This is not the way of wise 'men'.
Personally, on the rich kid goes to posh school front, I was lucky to get a private education as my family were poor. I'm one of those pupils who's parents sacrificed all to send me to St J. Although it meant I got a subsidised education, it certainly didn't purchase me any privilages within the school as some of the wealthier kids certainly did. My parents went to quite ridiculous lengths to keep me there as long as they could - even paying fees over and above maintenance bills and a mortgage (not a pretty result, I can assure you).... It's just a pity in many ways that the private education I did get after all that was (how should I put it) extremely quirky to say the least.
However, despite an entirely contextual poverty, I totally agree that we are blessed with a life full or opportunities, we're not a military/police state, or born into captivity or a state famine, so we are extremely privilaged and wealthy in that regard.
Back to the isssue of sanskara/sanscara (sp?), as my Nan has always said, how can anyone look into the eyes of a newborn baby and say that they come with all that baggage (although DNA does have a big part to play in a childs unfolding nature, I agree).
I think it would be advisable for anyone who believes in this particular philosophy of sanskara that they quote the teachings if anyone asks them what they think, rather than putting it in their own words or they could be treading on very thin ice. (although I fear quotes from the scriptures may still be harsh but at least the 'believer' would be removing themselves from the role of judging others)...... food for thought.
Groan, I've got carried away again. Apologies.... but where else can I post on this subject which is obviously so deeply embedded in my ...... psyche (did you think I was going to say sanskara? lol)
Ems

[Free Thinker]

Ems - this board exists in part, to let us get carried away. So there is no such thing here.

If you go to therapy and don't talk as much as you can about your thoughts and experiences, it's not going to do much good.

Same here.

[Saint James]

This quote is from an ex member I am in contact with, gives a good example of SES's teaching on disability.

"When asked why SES was so harsh on those with physical disabilities the tutor Mr Nash replied that so very evil were the past lives of the disabled, that a physical handicap was a sure sign that the afflicted individual was about to be eliminated from the human race, and would incarnate in the future as an animal. The Absolute then generously bestowed a disability as a last resort before condemning the miscreant to an animal form. Disability was therefore a sign of incipient sub humanity, and severe treatment was necessary, to underline the extreme gravity of the situation."

Has Mr Nash ever apologised for saying such things? That's terrible.