A personal view from a parent.

Discussion of the children's schools in the UK.
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Postby Keir » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:31 am

Anyone care to stroke my Emu?

click here

no relation to the SES, promise. heh heh

huge image replaced with link to image -- mike

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a different guest
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Postby a different guest » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:54 am

That's not an emu
This is an emu



Alban wrote
BTW ADG, Did anyone tell that bloke he has forgotten to plug the iron in.[/b]

Well that's why he needs the gals from Art of Hospitality!
Mind you, I've just noticed he's also topless...

Liz! Come back! This is a "discussion" forum", not a "post a statement once and leave" forum.

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Ben W
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Postby Ben W » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:48 am

Hello Elizabeth,

Thank you for your clarification. I have messages for the governors but will not put them here given the personal nature of your posting.

I am glad you posted a second time. I found it much easier to feel you reaching out here than in your first posting. I particularly appreciated your comment "I know ... how my family got on at St James, we talk about it often and I am under no illusions that it was all a bed of roses" (Forgive me for removing the word 'exactly'.)

Reconciliation is a good aim. I did take a moment to look it up. Collins gives a few quite different meanings under "reconcile". Here are two I found:

- Cause to acquiesce to something unpleasant
- Become friendly

I think everyone on this board would agree that the first is unacceptable, and the second is unlikely. I therefore chose the following:

- To make (two apparently conflicting things) compatible or consistent with each other.

So how do we achieve this Elizabeth? How do we truly achieve this? That is my question to you.

Best wishes,

PS I also looked up "Hospitality" which is defined as "Kindness in welcoming strangers or guests". How did we do?
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years

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Postby AntonR » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:38 pm

Post deleted
Last edited by AntonR on Wed May 17, 2006 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bella » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:46 pm

Anton, I've heard of the Mavro years, and what it entailed for quite a few people. From all recent accounts, it sounds hideous, and a result of what can happen when people don't question obvious brutality and egotism early on. Unfortunately, it took longer than it should have to have this man ejected. But ejected he was, in the end, as you have yourself acknowledged.

You might or might not be pleased to hear that the Sydney school is currently probably one of the most lenient in Australia, as a reaction to the unreasonable oppression of Mavro. Much younger Brisbane school students going down for a week residential in Sydney are often put in charge of activities, and the standards they expect are often at odds with the average Sydney student. I'm talking about things like being reasonably quiet when setting out the dinner/lunch, and pausing after doing same. There is a noticable backlash that still pervades the Sydney school, but the current Sydney leader is probably well-equipped to handle the ongoing transition.
Last edited by bella on Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Merry » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:25 pm

Hi Anton,

Thanks for the response.

I have been a member of the SES since 1981 so I do remember how it used to be. I remember meeting Mr Mavro on 2 or 3 occasions and know that things were a bit Kookie to say the least, though I have no direct knowledge.

This is the first time I am trying to use the quote button so I hope I get it right.

So when the School Leader tells you that ?Mozart was a member of a secret School like this one?, ?that the School has been given a special meditation by HH?, ?that the School will establish a new world religion?, ?that the School will become the new custodians of the Vedas?, ?that Marsilio Ficino ran a School in Florence exactly like this one?, no matter what you may think, the leader has spoken.

The 'secret school' that Mozart was a member of was the Freemasons unless someone knows something I don't. I have never been told by anyone any of the other statements. Nevertheless I do think there was some unhealthy arrogance which I probably subconsciously was guilty of too. Thankfully that has and is changing very quickly - genuine humility is so much more attractive.

Believe me, very searching questions are made and I receive them from my students in the Introductory course in London. I have to continually questions my ideas and beliefs, some of which have been shaped by the SES and some not. We all have these agendas and the past twelve months for me have been spent re-evaluating all those assumptions (and very healthy that is too).

I believe everything you say in your post, happily that does not and could not occur today- no one would stay!

Thanks again


quote error fixed - mike

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Postby Merry » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:28 pm

Yep - messed up the quote bit - Mike do you have a 'Board Usage For Dummies' booklet?

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Postby bonsai » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:36 pm


How to use the quote.

Basically when you want to quote you put {quote} replacing curly brackets for square brackets. The you paste in the text you wish to quote and at the end you put {/quote} likewise replacing bracket types.

Alternatively press the quote button it puts the first quote marker in and then press the quote button after you have pasted the text in and puts the closing quote marker.


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Postby mgormez » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:31 pm

Merry wrote:Yep - messed up the quote bit - Mike do you have a 'Board Usage For Dummies' booklet?

There's a FAQ at the top of the page but it does not deal with quoting for some reason. But what Bonsai wrote is good.

Basically if you want to learn how BB stuff works then press the "Quote" button next to a post and you get to see how others have done it. Like if you want to know how I do this:

It's spring!

Not that we want to go back to those days when someone felt the need to use huge fonts, but as example.
Mike Gormez

Tom Grubb
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Postby Tom Grubb » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:22 pm

Merry, I've just re-read the post quoted below. I'm afraid I hadn't realised, as I should have done, that when you accused ADG and myself of taking "one word from Elizabeth's posting", you were referring to her second posting. I thought, wrongly, that her reference to "mistakes" was in her first posting.

You are, therefore, quite right that I focussed on one word from the secondposting so I apologise for writing: "It's simply not true that I've taken one word from Elizabeth's posting". I stand by the rest of my reply to you, though!
Tom Grubb wrote:
Merry wrote:Tom and Different Guest,

You have taken one word from Elizabeth's posting and decided to reply in a cynical way. I am quite sure you will be able to justify it in some way but she has been brave in entering the dragons den here and has made an effort to bridge the gap in a way she feels she can. It was offered in good spirit and you could have responded in similar fashion whilst still disagreeing

Whether you agree or not with what she says, if these are the sort of responses that she and others receive you are unlikely to attract other people to come on to the board.

Patrick Wyatt

It's simply not true that I've taken one word from Elizabeth's posting (see my first reply on this thread) or, I think, that I've replied in a cynical way. Also, I don't think she's been particularly courageous.

As 1980sstJ rightly points out, we're talking about child abuse here, not "mistakes". Elizabeth's SES ran schools where children were, to quote Mr Townend, "criminally assaulted". The thugs who beat up and abused my friends and so many other children were not making "mistakes" - ADG is quite right to pick up on that word - they knew exactly what they were doing and, I'm becoming more and more convinced, so did Leonardo da Vinci MacLaren, the SES's and Elizabeth's godman.

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Postby CeliaR » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:53 pm

Last edited by CeliaR on Thu May 18, 2006 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

elizabeth edmunds
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Postby elizabeth edmunds » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:30 pm

I am not disappearing having posted, I just don't know if I have anything more to say that could be helpful. Questions one by one I can have go at answering. I don't use the computer every day so if my answers aren't immediate it is because I am not around. However I will have a go but I can only answer from what I have met and wether you will find me believable or not is uncertain. I feel I should retain the right to retire if the postings move into intractable areas of discusssion. Will that do? Back on Monday but not before.

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Ben W
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Postby Ben W » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:12 am

Welcome back.

Yes Elizabeth that will do very nicely for me at least.

Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years

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Postby NYC » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:54 am

Ms. Edmunds,
If you are amazed at the furious responses your posts have engendered, perhaps it is because you haven?t read much of the site. I would say on your behalf it is now extremely time-consuming and requires a little computer experience to find the first-person allegations of abuse which have been collected here over the last few years.

Here?s an extremely short, not remotely comprehensive list. You should be able to click on the URL links below. Right-click the mouse to open the link in a new window.

?lowpass? on ?St james 1973 ? 1980. 7 years of Sadism survived, almost.?

I believe ND picked on a few children he felt he could abuse with a high level of impunity. When caning he used to tease it out, relishing the moment. He used to put his whole body into it, i believe he was actually hitting as hard as he physically could.
Children of important cult members such as lawyers bankers financiers were never punished by cane, neither were children who collapsed in hysterics or told their parents. He knew who to choose?My mistake was not talking to anyone about this abuse, but to a young four year old who had been bought up in SES I had no frame of reference or idea of normality.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... ight=#1111

?lowpass? on ?Dear All?
The punishments administered, clothed in the confused ramblings of Leon Maclaren and driven by SES induced repression and self loathing were nothing like that given in other private schools at that time. Simply put, Debenham and Co would be in court answering to criminal charges.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... ight=#1154

?T.S? on ?Just discovered this! From ex-pupil of Girls school?

I went to St James girls school for 10years from 1981-91. As with so many others this was utter hell which still haunts me daily. There are so many stories to share but what is so amazing is to be in contact with people from that world. It was another world wasnt it...

The night before I went onto the internet looking for something to do with St James I burst into tears at a dinner party when a memory came flooding back for no apparent reason...

We were all 11 years old. Fooling around between class a group of girls had tried to pull up my skirt and by accident it had torn. My form teacher dicovered the tear and as a punishment made me stand infront of the class in my underwear. Having just entered puberty this was horridly humiliating. She then made all the other girls take off their dresses too. It was an age where you hadnt got your first bra yet but were no longer flat chested- I remember other's tears.. But most of all I remember the harrowing pleas of a new girl who had severe burns on her skin and had always been careful to never reveal them. She begged to not remove her dress but the teacher forced her too anyway. I was so disturbed by this but more disturbed bythe guilt of my feeling of relief that the attention was off me for a while. I had to sit in my underwear for ages whilst the others ( now clothed) stitched my dress. I remember Mr Skinner passing through the classroom and dying inside with the shame.
This is one of many incidents like this. There was a lot of violence in my experience in the Girls school as our form teacher was an incredibly vicious woman. She hauled people out of the shower and smacked them whilst naked. She tore the towel off an overweight girl infront of everyone, she stripped another girl 14 year old infront of everyone for having 'false modesty' ie not wanting to be noticed in the changing room.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... ight=#2455

?Clara? on ?St James girls? school remembered?
Well done for starting this website.
I went to st james from 1975 until I was 'asked to leave' in 1982. Unfortunately, being in the guinea pig class of the whole hideous idea of a school my form teacher was also the headmistress which meant there was never any respite.

I feel I would like an apology or at least an acknowledgment from ms Caldwell before she snuffs it. Apart from all the usual punishments and craziness and endless accusations of 'rotten apple in a box of good apples', things turned vicious when I was molested by a builder in the toilets. Stupidly I reported the incident to ms Caldwell, (as he boasted to me of other girls he had touched up) and her response was to take me downstairs and ask him point blank. he denied it and she apologised telling him that I'd always been a liar.

My punishment was to stay in her study until I confessed to the lie. Apparently I continually flirted with male teachers and even curled my hair before school in order to get their attention (?!). Meanwhile she told me she was organising a court case in which I would have to stand up in court and tell my lie with him, his manager, his employer all speaking out against me etc etc. Eventually (three days later, no meals, no conversation - stood up in assembly whilst everyone told that I was evil and anyone caught talking to me would be punished) ..eventually another teacher saw me standing outside the ms Caldwell's study, face in the corner sobbing and asked me what was wrong. It transpired that she had had the same builder and he'd touched her up as well. So, no apology or anything I'm sent back to the class.

A few days later I am sent to her study and asked if I have 'any crimes of the land to confess to?'

Again I am to stand in her study, no meals writing out straight lineswith a Sanskrit pen, until I confess. I have absolutely no idea what I am meant to have done but this makes no difference whatsoever.
I begin to stop talking altogether over the next few days as I am now accused of ringing her up and making obscene telephone calls every day for nine weeks. She knew it was me because she 'recognised my voice'.
Despite several of the calls coming when I was travelling home from gym club at eight pm, she was convinced that I had got out of the tube at Leicester Square and made the calls.

The next accusation came within the same week. I was now not eating or talking, about the only two things I could control. I had apparently sent her a box load of sex magazines. By this stage I had decided that the only way to end this hell AND to make a statement was to jump in front of a tube at Embankment station. Bizarrely at the planned event, my father turned up on the platform at the same time. Within days I was asked to leave.

I cannot speak for anyone else's causes but there was certainly one suicide whilst I was there and another attempted.

I found it almost unbearable when i had the misfortune to meet her again years later that she actually mis pronounced my name. This woman who had so bullied and harmed me couldn't even pronounce my name.

Any way, there goes.

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... ight=#2280

?Coralie? on ?St James girls? school remembered?
I am sitting at my computer shaking, wondering whether I am going to say what I want to say without causing too much damage to people I love. I have chosen this page to write on as it feels safer and I went to St James Girls School. I have been reading the posts for a while now and hope that the old feeling of comradship will prevail. I don't want to get into divide and conquer territory again.

I want to start out with the reason I have hesitated. My Father is very ill. My story will hurt my parents a great deal. I have wanted all my life for my Mum and Dad to be happy together and I think that they now are. I can understand why my Mum does not want to revisit those dark days and I think that it will be too hard for my Dad to take on board how I felt and feel. My greatest regret is to have not been able to get to know my parents.

I was the oldest girl in St James. I was reminded of that by my Teacher, Head Mistress, SMC. My Dad was in the same group as her and so was the Deputy Head, HH. My Mum was in the group lower down. I think I was seven when my Dad's affair with HH started. It carried on until after I was married and she died. HH brought the whole of my wrath upon herself. In some ways this helped me, but the way she did it was very hurtful. I don't know whose idea it was for her to come to our classroom and teach us the ten commandments, however that is what she did. Obviously, I was not impressed. I didn't say anything while she was teaching, however, she felt the need to take me out of the class and into a little room and procede to tell me that she was better for my Dad and that they loved each other. From then on, I didn't recognise her being at School. We had to line up for Assembly every morning and curtsy to the Teacher one by one on our way in and whenever we saw them for the first time in the day. I refused to do this to HH and as she stood next to SMC it was clearly obvious what I was doing. I can appreciate that this put SMC into a difficult position, but she never did anything about it.

I tried to get quite a few people to talk to me about my situation, I always received the same response, "it has nothing to do with you and doesn't affect you". I begged to differ and still do. My Dad spent Wednesday and Sunday nights at her place and alternated Christmas and New Year with her and us. If he had stayed with her and we needed transport to School he collected us in her car. I saw her every day.

I felt like I was screaming really loudly, but that no one could hear me.

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... ight=#2714

And finally, just to finish on a slightly lighter note:

?Daska? on ?How much were our parents to blame??

washing other people's underpants is no laughing matter - I know, I was given the opportunity of 'serving' in this capacity on more than one occasion. I think I was supposed to be grateful, but in fact all it did was confirm that the SES senior ladies are lazy and rude?

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/phpBB2/vi ... s&start=45

I could be misinformed, but I believe that neither "T.S" nor "lowpass" participated in the internal inquiry.
Attended Parts 1,2, & 3 and a Plato study group in the NY adult school 2004 - 2005. Also explored advaita philosphy in other organizations since 1995, and continue to do so.

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Ben W
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Thank you NYC

Postby Ben W » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:44 am

Thank you. It is hard to find these stories without a lot of time.

I am sitting here at my desk shaking.
Child member of SES from around 1967 to around 1977; Strongly involved in Sunday Schools ; Five brothers and sisters went to ST V and St J in the worst years

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