Sydney School for Self Knowledge

[sydneykatieking]

Hello sydneykatieking,
Thanks for that enlightening post ..

I had never heard the story of Nina being a nurse .. but I will find out.
I did not know either that MacLaren did not send them out to start the SOP ..
Nor that Michael was not actually an engineer ..

I do know that they never put their names on anything ..this is true, it is always others,
the premises in Canberra are the rent responsibility of a senior student.

Not sure about the new building but I believe it to be owned outright ..

this is what
Mrs m said to me before I left.
There was a substantial donation given to the school (not the m's personally) by someone in America
left in his will. But definitely not enough to pay for the building.
There was often mail to their house addressed to different names ..

Dear Ella. MC: thanks for this. It sounds as if the SFSK is like a Pizza Hut franchise, with each branch totally responsible for its own maintenance. So, in order to make the rent each month, this senior student has to get out there with the advertising and beat the bushes to drum up new fee-paying students. At worst, it's like a Ponzi-scheme. At best, it's just another competitive business.

Regarding the SFSK building: anything Nina Mavro says is unreliable and dubious. I don't believe a word that creature says. Even if she bought the building outright, for cash, with no mortgage attached, the question remains as to WHO pays for the ongoing maintenance of the building: that is, the insurance, the power, the water and sewage, the council rates, the phone, the solicitor. Even with her questionable ATO charity status, these expenses still have to be met. I presume, in true SES/SOP fashion, the slave students do all the cleaning, painting, scraping (and bowing), window washing, floor waxing, donating time, energy and materials for the Cause. The full weight of having their own building may prove to be an expensive milestone around their necks. As in SOP, the people who rise in the hierarchy are not the virtuous, righteous, truthful students, but the ones with the cash to keep the doors open. That's not inspiring; it's just commercialism, selling a completely unverifiable product, called 'self-knowledge.'

'Enlightened,' bless her heart, seems to think that to be 'spiritual' you can't be practical, realistic, an adult living in this modern world, not having a lawyer looking after your best interests. I remember this dysfunctional state of mind because at one time I thought like that, too. I was totally OFF WITH THE FAIRIES; we all were. It took a huge shock to wake me/us up to being responsible grown-ups in this modern world. This blind allegiance, this submission and obedience, this crazy compliance with the words of some stranger who makes unverifiable claims of higher consciousness, well, we just set ourselves up as PATSIES.

I think it's so ironic that when we are children, we can't wait to be independent grown-ups, make our own decisions, have our own life, be an adult. Yet these so-called schools reduce the grown-up into something childish and immature. Not child-like, but child-ish, easily led, bullied and hoodwinked. Our children were not fooled by this school nonsense; only the so-called grown-ups.

Until later, best regards.

[sydneykatieking]

Postscript to my last post.

I wanted to add the details I know about the Mavros' employment, the SEC and the Art Gallery Bookshop.

Nina worked with a nice young girl, named Helen W, who also joined SOP and was part of the original Top Group. It must have been interesting working side-by-side with the SOP co-boss, but Helen always said they never talked about School things at work. Well, that was not quite true, because I know the amount of time -- hours per week -- that Nina, on state time, was on the phone regarding SOP things. In fact, she encouraged students to call her at work whenever they needed to. That was one of the things that woke me up to her low ethical standards: did Nina's boss know she was stealing time from her job to do her SOP work? I doubt it. I remember that during one of our 'ladies' meetings, Nina admitted she gave her Bookshop work to Helen W to do while she did her SOP work out the back at her desk. I know this first-hand. Not the sort of person who would be up for Public Servant of the Year! There was always this arrogance that since SOP people were special and more spiritual, we didn't have to play by the ordinary rules of society, such as: an honest day's pay for an honest day's work.

Second-hand, but reliable, stories about Mickey were that he too spent a lot of state time on the phone regarding SOP matters. He would phone his men anytime that was convenient to him and the men were expected to jump to. Both of them took advantage of their public service jobs where you can get away with substandard work and enjoy that job security that goes with government work.

In the early 1980s the ship hit the sand big time for the Mavros and they came in for a lot of local unfavorable media attention. This followed on from the publication of Secret Cult and a large spread in the newspaper. (I remain one of the proud contributors to that book.) Reporters followed them to work, tried to interview them but they always evaded the cameras. Secret Cult is still available on amazon.com and there have been postings about the local publicity.

Both the Mavros lost their public service jobs after this publicity. When you sign on to be a public servant, you give an undertaking that you will not do anything illegal, unethical or bring disrepute to your employer, the taxpayers of New South Wales. They had broken their pledges and brought disfavor upon their employers: the SEC and the Art Gallery. I don't know if they jumped before they were pushed or whether, to save face, they resigned their public service jobs before they were fired. I don't believe a word that they both decided to, conveniently, 'retire.'

And then, of course, around this time, they were both, deservedly, fired from SOP. Wow! suddenly the philosophy gravy-train came to a screeching halt. They were unemployed, having to live on their savings. They had no more access to the financial goodies from SOP.

The next thing we all know is that they invented another 'school' to foist the whole sorry 'spiritual' business on the community all over again, especially with the financial perks of running a 'charity.'

I see this forum as an old-fashioned Lighthouse, like the one (now decommissioned) at South Head on Sydney Harbour. Once upon a time, ships were at the mercy of the tides, currents, hidden rocks and lighthouses guided and warned these vessels away from danger and destruction. I see this forum as a place of warning against the danger of phony schools that promise enlightenment, self-knowledge, personal fulfillment and a better world, while all the time they disrespect society and have no active programs to directly aid the community. People are free to ignore the warnings and disregard the experiences of those who have survived these dangerous currents. What no one can say, though, is that they didn't know, nobody told them, when all the information is free at hand on this website.

Cheers.

[enlightened]

A pool donated by Krishna???, how lovely ! when half of India live in absolute poverty, HH has his own pool.....

[Ella.M.C.]

Yes, enlightened such is the devotion of some ..

Over the years La Nina and Michael often commented on how no one looks after
HH, and how his health suffers.
I never saw or heard anything that they might have done to alleviate the suffering of their Guru
that they so revered ..

He is we assume, an enlightened sage ..and he has taken the post of Shankaracharya
of two seats. With that undertaking comes work (I presume like the pope) and his time is spent
helping the poor through charities, etc and he sees everyone who comes to him ..rich or poor.
His days are spent sitting for most of the time, therefore some health issues. Doctors have advised
swimming as his best form of exercise.

As you can see from sydneykatieking's post (which I greatly respect and understand).. and obviously
many SSFK students ..yourself included, the Holy Man, Mantra etc is of no consequence.
For some of us it was the main issue ..and the reason to leave.
To be lied to by our spiritual teachers ...
What type of spiritual teachers could they possibly be?

For krishna coming from the background he has, devotion comes more easily ..it is beautiful to see.
And wouldn't you too, if you believed you saw God in front of you in the form of the Guru do the same?
If you love your child or friend greatly you do anything to alleviate their suffering, or to help with a need.
And how about, gratitude and recognition of a great soul ..
While he is alive people donate to his charities which help 'half of India who live in absolute poverty"
Look at the bigger picture enlightened ..

Now enlightened ..did you miss this post??

It would be wonderful, and GREATLY APPRECIATED ..if you could follow on from what is said here
and answer some (at least) of the questions that are directed to you, with appropriate answers.
A big point here being ..
"It's in her interest to lie to you, where it is not in our interest to lie to you"

Mrs M assured us that HH is well aware of this scandalous rubbish that is going on with ex SFSK students and he has not only blessed and cleared the school, but has given us more material, and her travelling companion Lucia has verified this.

This just begs the question - whether or not we can call it "scandalous rubbish" is exactly the issue. Mrs Mavro tells you all this in the same way that she used to tell us all kinds of things that were later proven to be false. I'm not saying you should trust us at our word, but surely you can see that there is no reason to trust Mrs Mavro's word either? She has much more to lose here than we do. After all, we have left the School - there is no further power we can acquire (or maintain) over you. She, on the other hand, has much to lose. It's in her interest to lie to you, where it is not in our interest to lie to you. If you start to see Mrs Mavro as just another human being, subject to the the same fears and insecurities as everyone else, the conclusion that she is lying to you in order to preserve what little authority she has left is almost inevitable.

What reason do you have to suppose that Lucia's testimony regarding her trip to India was independent?

Also: You say HH has "blessed and cleared the school" - and this you hear from the same woman that tells you HH has very little idea of how things are run in Australia. How can he "clear" a School about whose operation he knows so little? What is he "clearing" exactly?

MOTS

[sydneykatieking]

Hello everyone:

I would love to see the original founding legal documents that the Mavros presented to the Australian Taxation Office which made certain Claims to Legitimacy as a religious or educational 'charity,' whereby the owners of the SFSK get generous perks and allowances. The ATO, obviously, does not just hand out these charity designations without some Claim, some Pitch, to make the case. Anyone game yet to ask The Madam for the ABN?

If the Mavros claimed to have a spiritual holy man leading and guiding the 'school,' and that clearly is NOT the case, wouldn't the ATO be interested in knowing that the SFSK is a false charity, with no community outreach, no community service or programs (other than activities and advertising designed to bring in more fee-paying students) and that it exists solely for the benefit of the owners of the 'school.'

Compare the SFSK with, say, the Anglican or Catholic churches, the Jewish community, The Smith Family, St Vincent de Paul, The Salvation Army, all which have programs to help the needy. Plus the programs HH, himself, in India supports, for the benefit of his community. The Mavros always scorned such outreach programs as 'do-gooders,' who 'play around with results.' Which, in practice, meant any Mavro 'school' becomes totally self-absorbed and isolated, with no intention of helping anyone, except themselves.

A legitimate charity has open books, regular, independent audits of their finances, publicly posted budgets, an elected council/governing body/board of directors, open business meetings of the membership, even annual general meetings. Once any so-called 'charity' takes in money, it is subject to scrutiny by the ATO and any right-minded citizen of a free democracy.

Has anyone seen anything remotely like this in Madam Nina's 'school'?

When it comes to accepting money from others for any sort of service or benefit a contract situation exists, even if unspoken. In this day and age it is not enough to be honest; but, in business, one must be seen to be honest.

I am not just harping on about money. I know some people think that you can't be 'spiritual' and deal with matters of money, but that is immature LaLa Land Thinking. (The Mavros were masters at leading trusting souls down the garden path right into LaLa Land, where using your God-given brains was considered not necessary for your spiritual growth). I am, at base, talking about the betrayal of trust, the betrayal of open-hearted students who put their money, souls, efforts and devotion on the line for an Ideal, which they think can be met by some god-awful, unqualified, nobodies, like Mickey and Nina Mavro.

Until later.

[enlightened]

Im sorry Ella Mc, but unlike you and others I simply do not have the time to construct all these obviuosly well researched and well thought out , highly slick posts.... I concede defeat, think whatever you like, I can only abide by The Mrs MAVRO AND THE SCHOOL that I know now. You have all painted a picture of someone that I cant relate to and that belongs in the dark recesses of all your minds, not mine.

[sydneykatieking]

That's perfectly alright, dear enlightened. You can't escape until you realize that you are a prisoner, so good luck to you. Your life in entirely in your own hands. Just don't come back in days to come to whinge about how you were duped and fooled by this spiritual charlatan, Nina Mavro, when the light finally goes on in your God-given brain.

I could never understand why you spent so much time on this forum anyway, except you liked all the attention you got from us. You were breaking one of The Madam's cardinal no-nos in associating with former students who had renounced her sham-schools. Did Mummy Mavro ever know you have had contact with us? Are you now brave enough to own up to her about your transgression? I wonder what emotional satisfaction you ever gained in supporting and defending the Indefensible.

But your efforts have not gone to waste. Look at the number (thousands upon thousands) of 'hits' this part of the forum receives from visitors, just looking, just researching The Madam's scam-school, checking things out. It's OK that you are bowing out of the discussion: there are a lot of people out there, apparently, really interested In this subject.

Whatever it is you are doing in Madam's scam-school, it evidently isn't learning critical thinking or learning how to create and express a coherent, reasoned argument. I don't know what you do for a living, but it couldn't be any of the professions that require executive thinking abilities: Education, Law, Medicine, Science, Engineering, Finance. I wonder whose 'self' you think you have 'knowledge' of. Nina loves people who do not question her 'authority', so you seem right at home in her company. The Mavros always use to say to us, "don't think!" So, get your favorite pillow and comfortable blankee, tuck yourself in, and dream away. Pleasant dreams to you.

[sydneykatieking]

Hi Texas, yes I remember when Nana worked at bookstore at the Art Gallery of New South Wales. Every time there was an exhibition on at the gallery and I was with one of the School's ladies they always insisted dropping into the bookshop and saying hello to her. I did not really like this because at the time the Mavro's were trying to match up people for arranged marriages and this allowed her to see who was a unit. I remember in the early 80's being called up to Mavro's penthouse on the top floor at Kent Street and having a fatherly chat with Mr M about my marriage status and how as there were many single ladies in the School, maybe it was time for me to settle down. He pointed out then I could dedicate more of my time to School activities. I thought this funny because at that time I was attending activities 6 nights a week and half a day on Sunday!

Was the arranged marriages going on in your time in School?

Hello, again,

I'm glad you've raised the subject of the Mavro arranged marriages in Sydney SOP. There are two strands to this sorry tale: the marriages they helped to arrange and the marriages they actively devised to destroy.

The first I learned about Mavro matchmaking was sometime in the mid-70s when two young junior students fell in love and married each other secretly, without telling the Mavros; they deliberately hid the marriage. They lived in separate places to keep the marriage secret. Then, somehow, their secret reached Madam Nina, and they caught bloody hell for marrying without the consent of the Leader. I didn't know things had gotten out of hand that much that anyone was suppose to get permission to marry. The 'reason' for getting permission was to keep us from 'acting from our sanskara, our ignorance and willfulness. We supposedly didn't know what was in our own best interests, only the Mavros 'knew' what was best for us, and that included matchmaking. So we were reduced to being children who were not capable of making our own mature adult decisions; we had to let Nina or Mickey do that for us. Pretty sick, but that was the dysfunctional mind-set at the time.

Then there was another marriage, of John H and Sharon M with Nina's blessings, which produced 3 children in quick succession and also a lot of horrid domestic violence with the wife coming to Saturday group with bruises on her face. She left the pig, much against Nina's injunction that 'a woman has to please her husband' and that if she left her husband she would never be allowed to marry again. Such BS, you wouldn't believe. Luckily for our Sharon, she came out as gay, so at least, that was one happy ending.

Then there was the marriage of Germanic Maynard S and Kiwi Ngaari (sp?) D, both of the Top Group. And then the marriage of Ron W (Top Group) and Wendy L (later changing her name of Sarah) was strongly pushed by the Mavros. And then there was the marriage of Gilbert Mayne and Jane Bradbury (who also changed her name to Sarah). Gilbert and Jane/Sarah now run John Colet, SOP's early indoctrination children's school in Sydney. I knew Jane from when she was just a kid, one of the four Bradbury kids, a family of 6, all in SOP. I was surprised to learn of her marriage to Gilbert who seemed much older than she was, but then 'ladies' were suppose to marry 'older men' who were then 'in charge' of a woman's sanskara. More pure BS.

Whether these were true love-matches and have stood the test of time, I don't know. I hope, for their sakes, they are happy in their choices. Marriages produce children and SOP needed new babies for the next generation of school insanity. In Jane and Gilbert's case, however, they remain childless and seek to mould other people's children into perfect SOP devotees.

And now, the other side of coin: the marriages that failed because of SOP and the Mavros' influence. The Mavros never, ever, took any responsibility for the stresses and pressures their bullying put on marriages and families. They just took it as justified that husbands and wives never saw each other and children didn't see their fathers, because everyone was always in groups, kids and all, working for The School.

Mine was one of the first marriages to fail, with a husband who just did a runner, fled to parts unknown and was never heard from again. He was one of Mickey's meditating junior students, Mavro was his tutor. My husband would come home from Group emotionally and aggressively affected by all the really negative things that Mavro said about women. He was also 'terrified' of having to spend a weekend at Mount Wilson, stories of the unpaid, forced labor camp did get around. Mavro was obsessed with male dominance in a family, real outdated sexist garbage. The Mavros held that my husband's desertion of wife and child was all my fault. Apparently, I wasn't 'doing' enough for my husband. In vulgar Mavro-speak that meant I wasn't adequately putting out sexually for him. But then, if any of us fell pregnant we were accused of entrapping our husbands, turning them away from the "truth.' Women were second-class citizens and from what I read on this forum, not much has changed, Nina telling her SFSK women that even if they divorce and remarry, they are still married to the first man. I can't imagine any modern thinking woman putting up with this nonsense.

Then three others marriages went on the rocks of senior top-end students. The Mavros were actively driving a wedge between husbands and wives, creating antagonism and friction in families, really pitting people against each other. The Mavros never had a good thing to say about women, we were just the Devil Incarnate, willful, selfish, disobedient, manipulating and a lot of weak-minded SOP guys fell for it. It was especially hard on the kids. The Mavros actively worked to destroy our families so they could remake us as their SOP family. We were only 'allowed' time together during term breaks. A lot of marriages didn't survive all this effort for The Truth. If the wife wanted to leave SOP, the husband was instructed to leave the wife, even if there were children involved.

The Mavros didn't care. After all, Leon MacLaren was a divorced and remarried man, so their attitude was entirely cavalier and off-hand Truly, they didn't give a tinker's damn, a stuff, for us as human beings, just as long as we kept paying our fees and coming to groups. Simply astonishing, the suffering we allowed these bums to create.

I know of one Top Group marriage that came in for really heavy, nasty, shameless interference from Nina Mavro, who encouraged the husband to leave his wife and children. It was all a power game to Nina. Ironic too, because from what I personally observed in the Mavro marriage, those monsters were in no position to be meddling in other people's private lives.

Watching La Nina flirt with the single men made me sick to my stomach. And Mickey had a roving eye.

Around 1979, The Kissing was introduced. If we women were not already disrespected and humiliated, we were now forced TO KISS THE MAVROS ON THE MOUTH, ON THE LIPS when we met them. This was suppose to 'open the heart,' because we were all so cold and unloving. No one has written about The Kissing on this forum before, to my knowledge. It was only for 'the ladies;' the men, of course, were not required to kiss the Mavros or each other, that was a special degradation meted out for the women.

It was pretty disgusting. It was part of the Mavro's claim that they owned us, and tell the truth, for a while, they did.

It's not nice having to kiss Nina Mavro on the mouth. She was not my mother, sister, daughter, grandmother, auntie. She had a female Mediterranean mustache, being Greek. Kissing Michael Mavro was especially degrading because we had to look him right in the eye as our lips met and he clearly really got off on it. It was a form of sexual assault that I allowed and participated in. Heavens only knows what the husbands thought about their wives being forced to kiss that pig, Michael Mavro. Bad enough to have to kiss the mustachioed Madam Nina, but being forced to kiss Mickey Mouse Mavro was really the pits for me. I left SOP not long after.

Well, I think that's about all for now. Thanks for asking the 'inciting' question. Until another time....

[Tootsie]

Wow having to kiss Michael Mavro on the lips, no wonder you left School! With SOP weddings I remember some of them would rival the wedding of Diana Princess of Wales. I attended Ron W wedding at the St James' Anglican church in King Street and that was a big one. The funny thing was that a few years latter Ron W was the first person to stand up at the meeting in Kent Street and say he was no longer going to take the Mavro's B/S any more. Wedding gifts cost me a fortune when members of my group got married.

I have to say there was a lot of misogyny in the SOP in the 70's and 80's, maybe its just an Australian male issue thing.Ex Australian P.M. Julia Gillards' misogyny speech is a wonderful exposal of the problem all woman face in backward countries like Australia or India.

[enlightened]

Well Sydney Katie King, there is one great thing I will gain from no longer contributing to this forum, and that is not having to read your hate filled venomous words.I wonder if your'e projecting all the anger and guilt you feel towards yourself for having subjected your own child to your so called "cult".He didnt ask to do it, you selfishly made him and now you seem to be directing all your anger onto the Mavros instead of taking responsiblity and dealing with it.

[sydneykatieking]

Well Sydney Katie King, there is one great thing I will gain from no longer contributing to this forum, and that is not having to read your hate filled venomous words.I wonder if your'e projecting all the anger and guilt you feel towards yourself for having subjected your own child to your so called "cult".He didnt ask to do it, you selfishly made him and now you seem to be directing all your anger onto the Mavros instead of taking responsiblity and dealing with it.

Dear 'enlightened,'

. . . again with your ad hominem reactionary responses. I write history, not just my own, but of others who shared the dark Mavro path for awhile. We are all strong survivors who take total responsibility for our own actions. You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer and a perfect product of your masters. I don't write for your benefit but for the thousands of others who log in to learn some history. After all, we have all survived and are now free to speak our truth.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and just go away. You are a naughty little girl for breaking The Madam's rules in being on this open forum in the first place.

Good luck to you. You need it.

[enlightened]

And you Sydney Katie king are a bitter old woman who chooses to live in the past...GOODBYE

[sydneykatieking]

My dear friend, 'enlightened,'

What, still here? You are like an addict who swears off her substance of choice, but only after. . . one more drink. . . one more hit. . . one more posting on this forum.

Nina Mavro is very unhappy that you're on this forbidden forum, not because it puts your spiritual growth at risk (because The Madam doesn't give a flying Aussie stuff about your spiritual growth), but because you are a really horrid representative of the 'school' she has worked so hard to create. You are a very very bad rabbit, and Mummy is displeased with your behavior.

If you are an example of what happens to people after they've been in the SFSK for any length of time, then I hope that is a warning to others. I feel nothing but compassion and empathy for you. I (and I bet a lot of us survivors) know exactly where you are coming from, this rigid, inflexible, ignorant state of mind that keeps you fixed in a spiritual fantasy. But, in the Big Picture, it's all good. It's all OK.

Except, how low can you go, you don't even know me but you use an ignorant age-ist slur against me. "Old," is it? That is pure projection of your ignorance onto another person, who has never done you any harm and who has always sought your higher good. The Madam is much older than I am; do you put her down too? Again, you are a bad role model for anyone considering the SFSK as a spiritual path. This immaturity does not speak well for the time you have spent in the latest Mavro La La Land.

Despite your protestations, I assert you have learned somethings on this forum you didn't know before and that you will continue to monitor this forum as a silent visitor.

Face it; you're hooked. Pleasant dreams to you and yours.

Adios y terminamos mi amiga non profunda.

[Tootsie]

Catfight = Used to describe women insulting each other verbally. Its a crazy old world.

[Daffy]

OK, let's rest this thread for the weekend.